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MBAs who can't find jobs

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Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#31

Post by AtlasBarfed »

JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

What is the essence of an MBA education? I know it involves accounting and finance, but how hard is it to simply pick that up in a night course?

What I'm really curious about is the actual people management that is taught in MBA schools, and surviving middle management Machiavellianism. Is this explicitly taught in MBA schools? Suppressing labor costs? Anti-union? Bypassing regulatory costs? Acquiring regulatory capture?

Anyway, a lot of that doesn't seem like stuff that schools would teach well.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#32

Post by Retric »

mistrial9 wrote: post #18
paxys wrote: post #7

Not exactly surprising. Large companies have been slowing down or freezing hiring and laying people off for over a year now. Did anyone think MBAs would be immune?

it is obviously a systems problem if you cannot place people who are capable. It is a bad signal when constructive inputs are piling up and wasted right?

No? You want negative feedback signals in a free market economy not just positive ones.

An excessive number of people got MBA degrees therefore it ends up being a bad choice for many of them. That then feeds back and noticeably reduces the number of people getting an MBA in the future.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#33

Post by hotpotamus »

paulpauper wrote: post #24
JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. But what about all the "help wanted" signs I hear about from the media. I think it's more like they don't necessarily need a work, but are more like looking for candidates who may be offered a job.

Would you rather work at a McDonald's mopping up puke for $14/hour, driving heavy equipment in a heat index of 120 degrees for $20/hour, or anything an MBA might be expected to do?

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#34

Post by hammock »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #31
JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

What is the essence of an MBA education? I know it involves accounting and finance, but how hard is it to simply pick that up in a night course? What I'm really curious about is the actual people management that is taught in MBA schools, and surviving middle management Machiavellianism. Is this explicitly taught in MBA schools? Suppressing labor costs? Anti-union? Bypassing regulatory costs? Acquiring regulatory capt…

You would learn that in office hours or your internships

In the classroom, the emphasis typically is on business ethics and responsible leadership.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#35

Post by spamizbad »

I think it really boils down to there being too many of them.

We used to award about 70K MBAs each year. In the 2010s we awarded close to 200K every year. We've declined somewhat but we're still minting tons of degrees.

Even factoring in our economic growth in the US, there's just no way there's actually that much demand for people with this training.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#36

Post by FireBeyond »

JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

To me the "value" of an MBA is as I sit around the Principal PM, Director of Product region with 15-20 years under my belt and contemplate rounding myself out for a VP, CTO/CIO role (these are a little orthogonal, but I also have a substantial engineering and SRE background).

That's balancing things out, getting a better grasp of corporate leadership knowledge (in the sense of finances, accounting, corporate structure, legal).

There's a large difference between that and the "high school to college to MBA to Big 4 to management" pipeline, which is being looked at with a lot more skepticism at least, if not cynicism.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#37

Post by Etheryte »

nsxwolf wrote: post #25

> “I had no idea, a year later, I’d still be searching for full-time employment,” said 32-year-old AJ Edelman, who decided to pursue a Yale M.B.A. to ease his transition from a skeleton-racing career into a management role in technology. Hundreds of applications later, he estimates, he’s still looking. From skeleton racing to management in technology? Did he really expect the Yale MBA would be enough, combined with "…

Measuring progress by application numbers, and similarly implying that some arbitrary number is too low, is honestly silly. The higher your application count the more you're wasting your time spraying and praying. Focus on leads that are either realistic or just out of reach and work on those, applying to countless jobs that aren't even remotely relevant to your skillset is a waste of your own time.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#38

Post by achrono »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #31
JCM9 wrote: post #21

A) The overall job market is tighter than it was a few years ago and MBAs are not immune. B) Over the last decade I’ve observed the MBA becoming a lot less fashionable than it once was. I get the whole “it’s a great networking experience” thing but as a value-add degree there seems to be a lot less interest in people who specialize in “management” vs folks that focus first and foremost on being an expert at something…

What is the essence of an MBA education? I know it involves accounting and finance, but how hard is it to simply pick that up in a night course? What I'm really curious about is the actual people management that is taught in MBA schools, and surviving middle management Machiavellianism. Is this explicitly taught in MBA schools? Suppressing labor costs? Anti-union? Bypassing regulatory costs? Acquiring regulatory capt…

> What is the essence of an MBA education?

As the title itself suggests, it is to understand how to run a business. That might not be the outcome for most MBA students, that might not even be their intent behind pursuing an MBA etc. but it is the 'essence'.

> [...] middle management Machiavellianism. Is this explicitly taught in MBA schools?

Short answer: rarely. But is it explicitly mentioned in MBA literature? Yes, if you know what to look for -- as is exactly the case in its real life manifestation.

Source: why, I have an MBA.

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#39

Post by anjel »

bugglebeetle wrote: post #8
ren_engineer wrote: post #6

going to get an MBA without having your job pay for it or any legit plan is itself a red flag to me in terms of the quality of a candidate. Why would you hire somebody who spent 100-200k(and even more money in salary opportunity cost) for a credential?

Judging by all the Harvard grads that get scooped up without issue and their horrendous problem with grade inflation, the answer to your question seems to be, yes.

A friend has an MBA from Harvard. Upon graduating they did their requisite stint at McKinsey for 18 mos, then went to work for a Fortune 100 corp, explicitly hired to be developed as eventual mid to upper management. After 15 years, upper management shifted and their future prospects instantly dimmed. So they picked up the phone, called the Harvard Alumni office, which in a matter of days set up interviews for them at other fortune 500 companies. They had another job offer in an entirely different field in about 2 weeks from the initial phone call. This is a recent anecdote, about 5-6 years ago when all the aforementioned problems were already evident. "Harvard is a hedge fund masquerading as an institute of higher learning" - Scott Galloway (and hedge fund is a euphemism for Racketeering)

Re: MBAs who can't find jobs

#40

Post by kevingadd »

bobjordan wrote: post #20

I graduated with an MBA in 2008 from a top 10-ish school, just before the Great Recession. I had no desire to be an entrepreneur. I pursued the consulting track and landed a full-time offer from my summer internship, but I got laid off in 2009 along with about half of the firm. After that, I did contract consulting jobs for a year and ended up working on a project in China. As that project ended, I still couldn't fin…

This seems like it boils down to "if you can't find someone willing to hire you, start a company and find someone willing to hire it"? Which solves the problem of not having a job, I suppose, but doesn't necessarily solve the problem of not having an income.

Contract manufacturing sounds like a very specific field. Were you working in contract manufacturing before, or did you basically make a career pivot into manufacturing because that's where the opportunities were? (If so, very savvy!)

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