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KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

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Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#51

Post by wpm »

walteweiss wrote: post #43
brnt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent spacing: no useless wide margins. Stylish icons that can blend in with various themes, which are clear and easily distinguishable. Font: most distro's actually default to Noto, not KDEs own. But you know what: this you can change, KDE didn't remove any and all options for customisation after all. You can pry Plasma out my cold, dead hands. Gnome, Macos, and Windows: now that's amateur hour.

[flagged]

It’s a desktop environment not a prom dress, I don’t really care about aesthetics.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#52

Post by JohnFen »

sph wrote: post #17
mvelbaum wrote: post #4

KDE is pretty feature-rich, but it is just ugly. Look at the poor use of spacing/margins, the ugly black & white icons, the ugly font, the square edges, and just the overall look & feel. It needs a major face-lift. I dislike the attempts to dumb down GNOME but KDE being ugly makes it really hard to switch to.

I'm gonna be very controversial here, but the problem is that the vast majority of Linux users are blind to aesthetics and design. Perhaps the vast majority of people are. Mind you, being blind to something does not mean it does not exist. Just look at the desktop wallpaper or any font choice of the average person. It's no wonder Comic Sans and Papyrus are the most common fonts in the world, even for formal business…

> the problem is that the vast majority of Linux users are blind to aesthetics and design.

This is just saying that people who don't share your taste are wrong (and worse, just don't know any better). I dispute that. Aesthetics are highly subjective, and things that have an aesthetic sense that I dislike are not wrong, and the people who do like it are not ignorant or idiots.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#53

Post by j1elo »

theHamsta wrote: post #13
roenxi wrote: post #10

> - Plasma's start time is up to a few seconds faster. On the one hand, this is impressive. On the other, this is a vague indictment of modern software. Plasma logs you in, draws a background and the taskbar thing across the screen. There shouldn't be seconds involved in that to shave. This must be a recurring feature, every few years someone goes through and fixes up load times.

They mentioned that the culprit for those additional load times was loading all the search backend for their application launcher which they deferred to the moment when there was actually the first search query (still shouldn't take multiple seconds)

I'm surprised they didn't go to a more clever solution such as "start loading it as soon as the most core components have already loaded, and CPU usage falls below 30% during 3 to 5 consecutive seconds".

That'd seem to me like a sweet spot between what was before (making the whole system startup slower), and what you mention will be now (probably making the first search to load noticeably slower).

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#54

Post by bogwog »

ta988 wrote: post #12
adamkf wrote: post #11

I've been using Wayland KDE on my gaming machine recently, it somehow made my cursor movement stutter. Switching to KDE X11 or Gnome Wayland solved the issue. I hope they address this kind of thing prior to making it a default.

Is it a Nvidia? They are notoriously buggy.

I've been using Wayland + KDE (currently Plasma 5.27.8) for a very long time now on my machine with an Nvidia GPU (first a 1080TI, then a 4090). There are annoying bugs, but they're not show stoppers. I'm not someone who whines about problems like these, especially because I'm at the forefront of the Linux desktop, on a known-bad combination, so there are bound to be bugs :P

For example, a persistent bug that hasn't gone away in all this time is flaky wake from sleep. Sometimes, one of my monitors breaks in such a way that it drops down to 640x480 res and can't be changed back unless I do a list of different rituals. Another bug is that KDE's "Night Color" feature doesn't work, and whenever it turns on it completely freezes the display every few minutes (although unfreezing it is just a matter of pressing the Meta key, so it's not a big deal). I keep sleep and Night Color on, even though they're broken in the hopes that I'll one day wake up to an update that fixed them. I'm 99% sure those are Nvidia driver bugs, and Nvidia has been working to improve their Wayland support recently (for example, there's an upcoming Night Light fix that I'm excited for: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/10/gnome-night-light-nvidia...). Being able to follow progress like this is fun for me.

I'm sure there are some other issues that I'm not remembering, but overall the desktop is completely 100% usable and reliable (for both working and gaming). My only other machine is a laptop, and that too is running KDE+Wayland (though no Nvidia). I have not switched back to X11 once in the months (year?) since I switched to Wayland, and have not missed anything.

EDIT: also, I should mention that I'm on Fedora Kinoite. I feel like a lot of problems people have with KDE/Wayland/Nvidia comes down to bad configuration somewhere. If you're on a similar machine, I recommend you try switching to Kinoite since it's designed to just work out of the box, and is pretty much impossible to break.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#55

Post by jdiff »

sublinear wrote: post #31
sph wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna be very controversial here, but the problem is that the vast majority of Linux users are blind to aesthetics and design. Perhaps the vast majority of people are. Mind you, being blind to something does not mean it does not exist. Just look at the desktop wallpaper or any font choice of the average person. It's no wonder Comic Sans and Papyrus are the most common fonts in the world, even for formal business…

> the vast majority of Linux users are blind to aesthetics and design Yes, my god is KDE ugly, but just because they don't prioritize aesthetics doesn't mean they don't know better. Linux users (and developers) prioritize functionality above all else. Meanwhile the entire discipline of visual design is just not very consistent. There are far too many subjective little rules and exceptions to maintain and they change…

This is exactly the problem. These two things are not at odds. Good design is functional. Good design makes information easy to find and digest. Visual soup is hard to organize and make sense of. Form is a component of function. A knife with another blade instead of a handle can do less cutting, not more. A knife with a contoured handle is easier to wield than one with a flat block handle. These concepts translate well into UI.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#56

Post by tux3 »

imiric wrote: post #39
MarcusE1W wrote: post #3

I use KDE for a year now with Wayland. Works absolutely fine for me. My requirements are probably simple, just a laptop but it works.

I'm surprised whenever I hear Wayland works flawlessly for someone, since I've tried using it on the NixOS unstable channel for a few releases now, and there are a few major bugs that make it unusable for me. A show stopping one is that the bottom panel is stuck in the middle of the screen, with no way to move it down that I could find, and clicks register in completely different parts of the screen. It's difficult t…

Firefox supports wayland, IIRC it wants an env var and some about:config flags

Some of the other bug might be nix-specific? On debian sid with KDE I haven't seen those, at least

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#57

Post by ollien »

smallerfish wrote: post #23

It's been kind of buried, but KDE has the first steps of tiling mode built into it now, in addition to the default screen edge tiling (on KDE 5.27.8 on up). Meta + T to enable tile editor. Shift + window drag to move a window into a tile. Hopefully a lot more coming, including different layouts per virtual desktop & full keyboard nav for the tiles. But it's a decent start.

I really wanted to try plasma with i3 but the big problem I ran into was that different monitors can't have independent workspaces, which was a deal breaker :(

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#58

Post by jchw »

shawnz wrote: post #48
smallerfish wrote: post #23

It's been kind of buried, but KDE has the first steps of tiling mode built into it now, in addition to the default screen edge tiling (on KDE 5.27.8 on up). Meta + T to enable tile editor. Shift + window drag to move a window into a tile. Hopefully a lot more coming, including different layouts per virtual desktop & full keyboard nav for the tiles. But it's a decent start.

I'm glad to see a tiling window manager that makes effective use of the mouse, I think it is an underappreciated input device for that use case

SwayWM at least enables some use of mouse for editing the layout: Meta+left drag to re-arrange/group/ungroup/etc. tiles, for example, and of course, Meta+right drag to resize as in i3wm. To me, even just having the Meta+left drag option seems like a significant step up.

Re: KDE Plasma 6.0 Is Enabling Wayland by Default

#59

Post by JohnFen »

znpy wrote: post #14
mvelbaum wrote: post #4

KDE is pretty feature-rich, but it is just ugly. Look at the poor use of spacing/margins, the ugly black & white icons, the ugly font, the square edges, and just the overall look & feel. It needs a major face-lift. I dislike the attempts to dumb down GNOME but KDE being ugly makes it really hard to switch to.

unironically if that's what you're complaining about, you might have liked kde3 a lot (yes, it's been 15 years and i still miss it). anyway, kde is very configurable so most likely you might bend it to your liking, had you been somehow forced into kde. > KDE being ugly makes it really hard to switch to have you considered XFCE ? to me it's the best so far: it does all the things i need, it's fast and it isn't dumbed…

> you might have liked kde3 a lot (yes, it's been 15 years and i still miss it).

You're not the only one. Ah, the poignancy of reminiscing about loves that we've lost.

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