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New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

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Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#51

Post by version_five »

prepend wrote: post #27

I think it’s better than nothing, but ultimately not helpful for job seekers working to learn how much a position will pay them. I work in a very regulated organization where all pay rates are published with postings. [0] But the ranges are $20-40k for each grade and it’s hard to tell what you will end up being offered and accepted. I think it helps prevent some mismatches of people confusing $20k and $200k positions…

The big ranges is a logical consequence of such stupid rules. People are not commodities, and only in the most trivial of work can you a priori know what an individual brings to it. It's typical government thinking that makes no sense in the real world. So employers are stuck publishing an absurdly wide band that reflects the difference in what different people might bring to the position.

This is effectively populism, a simple and wrong solution to a much more complex problem.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#53

Post by altdataseller »

prepend wrote: post #27

I think it’s better than nothing, but ultimately not helpful for job seekers working to learn how much a position will pay them. I work in a very regulated organization where all pay rates are published with postings. [0] But the ranges are $20-40k for each grade and it’s hard to tell what you will end up being offered and accepted. I think it helps prevent some mismatches of people confusing $20k and $200k positions…

I have asked some HR people this question about ranges, and most of them tell me they expect to pay the midpoint of the range. That is, if you meet the qualifications, they’ll offer you the midpoint. However if you blow them away or got some competing offers, they will offer you the high end. And if you got very little experience, the low end. That’s the rule of thumb. It doesn’t matter if the range is as wide as 80k-400k, just assume the midpoint is the starting offer

I’ve also done some research where I took offers people disclosed in TeamBlind and compared them to the job posting, and in most cases the offer was very close to the midpoint https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SfaV1p_jbgoTOyCsD5wd...

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#55

Post by altdataseller »

the_gipsy wrote: post #12
robertlagrant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's for New York employers only, is it not? Or do you need a presence in NY to employ people there?

If they hire employees that reside in NY they have to make ranges public in the offer.

And also if the employee will report to someone who’s based in NY

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#56

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

the_gipsy wrote: post #12
robertlagrant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's for New York employers only, is it not? Or do you need a presence in NY to employ people there?

If they hire employees that reside in NY they have to make ranges public in the offer.

that is reminiscent of data protection laws which apply if you're processing the data of [sometimes >N] residents from country or U.S. state X, even if you have no presence there

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#57

Post by pseg134 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #36
blfr wrote: post #3

I have never worked in a job where you can give a reasonable pay band and routinely made 1.5-3x what other people with the same title did, before bonuses. This really only works for well-defined jobs in production, retail, and seems to bring little utility for the HN crowd.

The same work should bring the same payment, period. Everything else just ends up rewarding those with the best "negotiation" skill which is completely unrelated to one's actually work-relevant skills.

Well negotiation is definitely a work skill and every single person does it many times per day so it’s a valuable skill to improve.

Most professional jobs allow for a range of working styles and productivity so it’s only natural people with the same job would be compensated differently based on the value they offer the company.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#58

Post by artursapek »

altdataseller wrote: post #53
prepend wrote: post #27

I think it’s better than nothing, but ultimately not helpful for job seekers working to learn how much a position will pay them. I work in a very regulated organization where all pay rates are published with postings. [0] But the ranges are $20-40k for each grade and it’s hard to tell what you will end up being offered and accepted. I think it helps prevent some mismatches of people confusing $20k and $200k positions…

I have asked some HR people this question about ranges, and most of them tell me they expect to pay the midpoint of the range. That is, if you meet the qualifications, they’ll offer you the midpoint. However if you blow them away or got some competing offers, they will offer you the high end. And if you got very little experience, the low end. That’s the rule of thumb. It doesn’t matter if the range is as wide as 80k…

Yep, the range is also used for internal promotions. Someone who gets a title bump might end up in the lower end of the range for their new level (which should usually be higher than the high end of their previous range)

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#60

Post by sarchertech »

version_five wrote: post #51
prepend wrote: post #27

I think it’s better than nothing, but ultimately not helpful for job seekers working to learn how much a position will pay them. I work in a very regulated organization where all pay rates are published with postings. [0] But the ranges are $20-40k for each grade and it’s hard to tell what you will end up being offered and accepted. I think it helps prevent some mismatches of people confusing $20k and $200k positions…

The big ranges is a logical consequence of such stupid rules. People are not commodities, and only in the most trivial of work can you a priori know what an individual brings to it. It's typical government thinking that makes no sense in the real world. So employers are stuck publishing an absurdly wide band that reflects the difference in what different people might bring to the position. This is effectively populis…

In the vast majority of cases, you’re not going to know what an individual brings to the job for 6 months to a year at the minimum. The majority of the pay difference between 2 people with the same job title (assuming standard bigco leveling) comes down to negotiating ability.

Published pay ranges aren’t going to solve anything, but they do reduce the information asymmetry a little bit. They give you and idea of what is possible for they title in that company at that location. Companies have an incentive to post a relatively accurate range, and in most of the jobs I’ve applied for it was.

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