Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

news.northwestern.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 185 posts

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#51

Post by dekhn »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #44
dekhn wrote: post #31

This PR purports to answer a question I had since the beginning of the epidemic when it was clear that transmission was through-air. """“For example, if we assume the infectious dose for COVID is 300 copies, then a person who is exhaling 1,000 viral copies per minute would exhale an infectious dose in 20 seconds (highly risky in an elevator), whereas a person who is exhaling two viral copies per minute would exhale a…

Can someone clarify the concept of "infectious dose"? My layman's understanding is that even one virion can potentially infect someone. It's just that the odds of infection generally increase with the number of virions. (Modulo many other factors like where the virions reside, immune response, etc.) But the concept of "an infectious dose" sounds much more binary to me. EDIT:s/viron/virion/g

I'm not speaking as an authortiative individual here, but likely it's defined probabilistically in that 50% of people given a dosage show signs of infection later. See more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_infective_dose

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#52

Post by wizzwizz4 »

mcpackieh wrote: post #33
NikolaNovak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your perspective, but everybody has their own risk assessment and comfort, and yours is no more necessarily right than his :). Some people still wear masks, some people still take booster shots, some people people still wash their hands, some people sneeze into elbows, some people stay inside, etc. Others may not do some or any of those things. "Accept new risk" and "this is the new normal" is as validly execut…

> I get your perspective, but everybody has their own risk assessment and comfort Yeah I get that, but with him it seems very out of character. He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities. I hope he comes to term with the new normal soon because he's still young and spending the rest of his life paranoid behind a mask would be truly sad.

> He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities.

So… spending micromorts on worthwhile activities, rather than on queueing at the supermarket? Sounds pretty consistent to me.

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#53

Post by rolph »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #44
dekhn wrote: post #31

This PR purports to answer a question I had since the beginning of the epidemic when it was clear that transmission was through-air. """“For example, if we assume the infectious dose for COVID is 300 copies, then a person who is exhaling 1,000 viral copies per minute would exhale an infectious dose in 20 seconds (highly risky in an elevator), whereas a person who is exhaling two viral copies per minute would exhale a…

Can someone clarify the concept of "infectious dose"? My layman's understanding is that even one virion can potentially infect someone. It's just that the odds of infection generally increase with the number of virions. (Modulo many other factors like where the virions reside, immune response, etc.) But the concept of "an infectious dose" sounds much more binary to me. EDIT:s/viron/virion/g

not all virions are equal.

the viral assembly process, and the RNA replication process is error prone.

many copies, of the covid virion, are incapable of cell entry or reproductive infection, due to defects in manufacture.

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#54

Post by wait_what »

thesaintlives wrote: post #23
mcpackieh wrote: post #7

I know a guy who still wears a half-face respirator every time he's in public even for just a second. I think at this rate he'll be wearing it for the rest of his life, unable to accept a new level of risk and move on with his life. I'd like to help him but I see no possible way, he's convinced that I and 99% of the rest of the public are suicidally insane like people who play literal russian roulette.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#55

Post by SoftTalker »

I wonder how this compares to other respiratory viruses, such as various flu strains?

Shedding a lot of virus early, before the immune system has had a chance to develop and mount an attack, seems like what one would expect. But not sure if all viruses are like this?

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#56

Post by mrob »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #50
mcpackieh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get your perspective, but everybody has their own risk assessment and comfort Yeah I get that, but with him it seems very out of character. He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities. I hope he comes to term with the new normal soon because he's still young and spending the rest of his life paranoid behind a mask would be truly sad.

But again, the risk stats and perspectives and acceptance may differ. You may need to work on yourself to develop empathy for your and his personal choices and stop thinking of him as "sad", more than work on him and try to "help" him :-). The word "paranoid" seems out of place as well - the risk is actual and demonstrable. For example, skiing is fun. Flying airplanes is fun. And general aviation is quite safe for th…

In my experience, a half-face respirator is more comfortable than a FFP2 (European standard similar to N95) or surgical mask. They have soft silicone seals, and bigger filters and exhalation valves that minimize breathing resistance. If you want to reduce your chances of getting COVID-19 it seems the obvious choice.

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#57

Post by scns »

mcpackieh wrote: post #33
NikolaNovak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your perspective, but everybody has their own risk assessment and comfort, and yours is no more necessarily right than his :). Some people still wear masks, some people still take booster shots, some people people still wash their hands, some people sneeze into elbows, some people stay inside, etc. Others may not do some or any of those things. "Accept new risk" and "this is the new normal" is as validly execut…

> I get your perspective, but everybody has their own risk assessment and comfort Yeah I get that, but with him it seems very out of character. He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities. I hope he comes to term with the new normal soon because he's still young and spending the rest of his life paranoid behind a mask would be truly sad.

> He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities.

So? These are situations where he is kinda in control no? Out in public, how much control does he have about people, with or without symptoms, going to the same shop?

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#58

Post by GloriousKoji »

francisofascii wrote: post #2

> COVID patients exhale high numbers of virus during the first eight days after symptoms start...then drop steeply." Eek. Eight days is longer than I expected.

Seems like the CDC reducing the suggested isolation time from 10 days to 5 was a mistake.

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#59

Post by weaksauce »

doctorhandshake wrote: post #28
dingnuts wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when almost everyone has already had the disease and was able to observe what it did to them -- which is the state we're at -- it's pretty hard to say that everyone needs to protect themselves. I know what COVID will do to me, because I had it already. He's not right. I was vaccinated, and the vaccine didn't work (it didn't prevent me from getting ill, get out of here with the 'better outcomes' bullshit, I'm healthy…

I would argue you now know what COVID did to you that one time. You do not know what COVID will do to you.

yeah there have been studies showing repeat infection having an increasingly deleterious effect on your immune system. we don't know the long term harms associated with it.

Re: Covid patients breathe out large amounts of virus early on

#60

Post by NikolaNovak »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #52
mcpackieh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get your perspective, but everybody has their own risk assessment and comfort Yeah I get that, but with him it seems very out of character. He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities. I hope he comes to term with the new normal soon because he's still young and spending the rest of his life paranoid behind a mask would be truly sad.

> He likes to ski and is a general aviation pilot; these aren't low risk activities. So… spending micromorts on worthwhile activities, rather than on queueing at the supermarket? Sounds pretty consistent to me.

TIL about micomorts :). That is fascinating!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort

Post reply on HN