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China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

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Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#51

Post by cabirum »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #44
cabirum wrote: post #36

iPhones are also banned in Russia for govt officials. I believe that was after Kaspersky reported on the targeted vuln/backdoor attack ("Operation Triangulation")

> I believe that was after Kaspersky reported on the targeted vuln/backdoor attack If that is true, what a bizarre reaction. Apple wasn't behind this, and, if anything, it highlighted Kaspersky shortcomings.

Kaspersky exposed apple devices are backdoored and cannot be trusted. These devices are essentially black boxes controlled by adversary that cannot be properly audited. Apple obviously cooperates with Western govts providing/injecting backdoors, so it's prudent to ban them.

What "kaspersky shortcomings" are you talking about?

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#52

Post by emodendroket »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #50

This just seems like a logical reaction to unknown supply chain attacks. The DoD has restrictions on acquisition of Chinese hardware, for example. Some HN posters believe that this is a tit-for-tat move regarding the Huawei sales ban, which is hardly comparable, as Huawei hardware cannot be legally distributed or sold by US companies.

Even if it were the latter thing promoting domestic industry is a pretty logical thing to do in their shoes. Restricting supply of tech to China may make perfect sense from a US perspective but we can hardly expect them to play along.

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#53

Post by smoldesu »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #41
baby wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the correct explanation. And that makes sense as well. I think another insight might be that the Chinese gov doesn’t really like when large companies can influence their decisions. I’d imagine that if everyone in the gov has an iPhone it makes it harder to be tough on Tim Apple.

The reciprocity is related to fear of spying In the age of AI and model training, data is more than ever precious The US spying on EU leaders and their industry is perhaps what China is worried about https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie... https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/290615/revealed-m... https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/russia-s...

It's a shame that a superpower like China can't call out the United States on surveillance without it being hypocrisy. We need more countries objecting to unfair power-alignment like FIVE EYES, XKeyscore and PRISM. Unfortunately, most of them would rather build their own version rather than hold the US to a higher standard.

Hopeless "violence begets violence" situations like this underscore how disastrous a full exposé of both governments would be. It's a sad time to be a global citizen.

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#54

Post by emodendroket »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #48
seatac76 wrote: post #43

Expect more and more of this. The ultimate prize are technology standards, right now the West dominates that and China is actively trying to dethrone them. The world will sort itself in two camps again, Cold War is back functionally.

>the West dominates You mean the US dominates. I don't see any EU, Canadian or Australian designed smart-phones, Office365, Google, Chat-GPT, AWS, I can buy reaching critical mass. Edit: INB4 the chip hipsters who found out about ASML during the pandemic chip shortage, chime in with "but muh ASML is European!". Yes, it is European(Dutch), it's also based on EUV tech licensed from the US, and has EUV light sources at…

No but it’s a symbiotic system with EU companies being key parts of the system. Or am I missing some way I can buy a top-of-the-line cell phone not created with Taiwan-manufactured chips built using Dutch equipment? This is on purpose: the system is designed to create an important role for partners albeit a subordinate one. Though one might argue that they let Taiwan become too important. Either way, the recent book a Chip War is illuminating.

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#55

Post by kube-system »

smoldesu wrote: post #53
WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reciprocity is related to fear of spying In the age of AI and model training, data is more than ever precious The US spying on EU leaders and their industry is perhaps what China is worried about https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie... https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/290615/revealed-m... https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/russia-s...

It's a shame that a superpower like China can't call out the United States on surveillance without it being hypocrisy. We need more countries objecting to unfair power-alignment like FIVE EYES, XKeyscore and PRISM. Unfortunately, most of them would rather build their own version rather than hold the US to a higher standard. Hopeless "violence begets violence" situations like this underscore how disastrous a full expo…

All major powers spy on everyone. It is a prerequisite for being a major power, and it always has been.

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#56

Post by yorwba »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #41
baby wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the correct explanation. And that makes sense as well. I think another insight might be that the Chinese gov doesn’t really like when large companies can influence their decisions. I’d imagine that if everyone in the gov has an iPhone it makes it harder to be tough on Tim Apple.

The reciprocity is related to fear of spying In the age of AI and model training, data is more than ever precious The US spying on EU leaders and their industry is perhaps what China is worried about https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie... https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/290615/revealed-m... https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/russia-s...

More pertinent in this case, probably: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-09-15/china-wan...

When Xu was apprehended, he had with him an iPhone whose contents he’d faithfully backed up to the cloud, a lapse that allowed FBI investigators to recover all the data from Apple Inc.

...

FBI search warrants to Apple and Google had opened up his iCloud and multiple Gmail accounts, and digital forensics experts at the bureau had mined the contents of the phones recovered at the arrest. (Investigators were not able to recover anything, however, from the iPhone Xu Heng had been carrying. The day after the arrest, someone remotely accessed the device and wiped it clean.)

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#57

Post by fouc »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #50

This just seems like a logical reaction to unknown supply chain attacks. The DoD has restrictions on acquisition of Chinese hardware, for example. Some HN posters believe that this is a tit-for-tat move regarding the Huawei sales ban, which is hardly comparable, as Huawei hardware cannot be legally distributed or sold by US companies.

> unknown supply chain attacks.

Is that the case given that iPhones are manufactured in China?

My tinfoil hat theory is that they find it harder to hack iPhones to monitor their government officials.

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#58

Post by petesergeant »

baby wrote: post #34
smugma wrote: post #2

“China’s restriction mirrors similar bans in the U.S. against Huawei Technologies as well as against officials using Chinese-owned TikTok”

This is the correct explanation. And that makes sense as well. I think another insight might be that the Chinese gov doesn’t really like when large companies can influence their decisions. I’d imagine that if everyone in the gov has an iPhone it makes it harder to be tough on Tim Apple.

> And that makes sense as well

I dunno, I think I'd rather a group of people I was trying to hack were using a collection of random devices with vendor-supplied customer Android builds on them than iOS.

> if everyone in the gov has an iPhone it makes it harder to be tough on Tim Apple

Everyone in the government is a party member and will toe the line. It's the middle-class public you need to keep your eye on.

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#59

Post by WillPostForFood »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #50

This just seems like a logical reaction to unknown supply chain attacks. The DoD has restrictions on acquisition of Chinese hardware, for example. Some HN posters believe that this is a tit-for-tat move regarding the Huawei sales ban, which is hardly comparable, as Huawei hardware cannot be legally distributed or sold by US companies.

Huawei hardware cannot be legally distributed or sold by US companies.

There are bans on Huawei telecom equipment, but their phones, tablets, smartwatches, etc are not banned and are readily available:

https://www.newegg.com/Huawei/BrandStore/ID-15388

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Huawei/page/34F6034C-1D34-4913...

Re: China Bans iPhone Use for Government Officials at Work

#60

Post by smoldesu »

kube-system wrote: post #55
smoldesu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that a superpower like China can't call out the United States on surveillance without it being hypocrisy. We need more countries objecting to unfair power-alignment like FIVE EYES, XKeyscore and PRISM. Unfortunately, most of them would rather build their own version rather than hold the US to a higher standard. Hopeless "violence begets violence" situations like this underscore how disastrous a full expo…

All major powers spy on everyone. It is a prerequisite for being a major power, and it always has been.

I agree. In the same way we resent nuclear warfare though, we should want to "de-surveillance-ize" as much of the free world as possible. It's an unsafe deterrent and (as we're seeing now) a terrible precedent to set when things verge towards war.
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