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Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

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Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#51

Post by vasco »

iancmceachern wrote: post #39

I really don't like these kinds of headlines. The medical professionals are the real heros here. If the da Vinci system had just come out and this was some new capability I would understand. In this case the headline should say "surgical staff saves life of inoperable patient using standard surgical quality of care and using device that has been available on the.market for 15 years". It's one thing to say "new Invent…

The hero talk is really cringy. Other than that, it's not going to be long until we don't need anyone controlling it and for us to find it barbaric that we used to expose ourselves to factors like "trembling hands" or other such nonsense inside our guts.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#52

Post by dehrmann »

richk449 wrote: post #13
idiot900 wrote: post #7

Robotic head and neck surgery is routine at major medical centers all over. Da Vinci has been around for many years and it is human controlled. I’m glad this patient was helped but there is absolutely nothing interesting otherwise about this.

What an amazing world we live in. There is nothing interesting about a robotic assisted surgery able to perform more delicate and sophisticated operations than the best human surgeon in the world.

Cars are just as impressive, just a century older.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#54

Post by iancmceachern »

vasco wrote: post #51
iancmceachern wrote: post #39

I really don't like these kinds of headlines. The medical professionals are the real heros here. If the da Vinci system had just come out and this was some new capability I would understand. In this case the headline should say "surgical staff saves life of inoperable patient using standard surgical quality of care and using device that has been available on the.market for 15 years". It's one thing to say "new Invent…

The hero talk is really cringy. Other than that, it's not going to be long until we don't need anyone controlling it and for us to find it barbaric that we used to expose ourselves to factors like "trembling hands" or other such nonsense inside our guts.

I think someone going above and beyond to literally save another's life, despite incredible odds, is the definition of a hero. What's cringe about that?

There are two sides to this coin.

It's the classic do we want to keep a human in the loop, or not. By your same point we could argue that robots are more efficient killing machines, so let's make autonomous killing robots.

Back to surgery, there are lots of reasons you want a surgeon in the loop. There are lots if things that robots can do better too (like your tremor example). The key, like many things, is in the shade of grey in between, not the extreme arguments on both sides.

I stand by calling that surgical staff heros, and also think that the future of (good) surgery lies in the combination of skilled medical professional and machine, not the replacement of skilled professionals by machines.

Disclaimer: I work in this space

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#55

Post by capableweb »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #31
capableweb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, it's about a "inoperable tumor" so I'm guessing a human hand wouldn't be able to do it at all. That's what makes this particular case more amazing.

Well only if you don't consider the surgeon who operated the davinci robot. Not to diminish this case at all but people kinda misinterpret how surgical robots operate. They are less like CNC robots where you program in a control path before hand and the robot follows it. Rather they are like a set of "prosthetic" tools that allow you to stabilize your movements and shrink them down to extremely small motions beyond t…

> Well only if you don't consider the surgeon who operated the davinci robot.

No, even if you consider the surgeon. The article talks about that the robot is able to do maneuvers that a human hand cannot, drastically simplifying the surgery.

I'm well aware that the robot is controlled by a human, and I don't think anything in my comment indicates I wasn't.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#56

Post by wait_a_minute »

idiot900 wrote: post #7

Robotic head and neck surgery is routine at major medical centers all over. Da Vinci has been around for many years and it is human controlled. I’m glad this patient was helped but there is absolutely nothing interesting otherwise about this.

It's interesting to me. This is the first I read about Da Vinci and its capabilities in surgery.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#58

Post by coldtea »

monero-xmr wrote: post #40
coldtea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What an amazing world we live in. The kind of amazing where untold millions of people can't afford basic healthcare in the same country that we have a robot surgeon?

Do you hate yourself for living under a roof when so many can’t? For eating dinner when so many are starving? For drinking clean water when so much pollution exists? Good stuff happening shouldn’t make you miserable.

>Do you hate yourself for living under a roof when so many can’t? For eating dinner when so many are starving? For drinking clean water when so much pollution exists?

Of course.

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#59

Post by hollerith »

coldtea wrote: post #58
monero-xmr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you hate yourself for living under a roof when so many can’t? For eating dinner when so many are starving? For drinking clean water when so much pollution exists? Good stuff happening shouldn’t make you miserable.

> Do you hate yourself for living under a roof when so many can’t? For eating dinner when so many are starving? For drinking clean water when so much pollution exists? Of course.

I've seen authors describe their ideological opponents as being self-hating, but till now have never seen anyone own it.

There are many things in a person's emotional life that a person does not have any control over (at least not in the short term and without spending lots of time and money on, e.g., psychotherapy). I think it is commendable that you understand your own emotions well enough to perceive this self-hatred, and I do not think any less of you because of it.

If there are many people who share your emotional reaction to inequality, that would have explain a lot of things that so far have been puzzling to me.

What is your opinion of those who have things that others lack, but do not hate themselves for it? Is there something wrong with such non-self-hating lucky one in your eyes?

Re: Da Vinci robot surgeon removes inoperable tumor, saving patient’s life

#60

Post by srean »

mrabcx wrote: post #8

How could it be inoperable if a human controlled robot managed to remove it?

In a similar way that a scalpel helps execute a surgery that's inoperable without a scalpel. There's a lot of difference between a scalpel and a 'robot' but its a tool nonetheless.

In other words, I agree with what you are saying.

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