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Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

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Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#51

Post by Zuiii »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #36
botanical wrote: post #15

I've said it before when a self-driving Uber killed a woman, and I'll say it again: I don't understand why authorities allow self-driving cars to beta test out in public. I thought Waymo was the best with something like millions of hours on the road but when they started accepting passengers, it failed to proceed past a traffic cone: https://youtu.be/zdKCQKBvH-A?t=742 I wouldn't trust any of the others like Tesla and…

> [2015] In California alone, 431 people died in accidents involving young drivers[0] By your logic we should also stop allowing 15-20 year olds to learn how to drive in public. So far the robots have done less damage. [0] https://www.inlandempirelawyers.com/blog/young-driver-accide...

So? No need to increase that number by allowing half-developed machine to kill even more people. Having those kids on the road is a necessary evil. Having those dumb machines on the road is not. AI should be trained safely off the roads or not at all. If those companies don't know how then that's their problem, not ours.

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#52

Post by shwaj »

7e wrote: post #37
s0rce wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a human that drove into wet concrete: https://www.wlwt.com/article/car-drives-through-wet-concrete... I'm sure its not that uncommon just not publicized, people are terrible drivers.

Do terrible drivers drive as much as Cruise does? Terrible drivers at least eventually get better through practice. Having 100 poorer than average driving autonomous cars in the streets driving around 24x7 is a net worsening. Autonomous cars improve more slowly than humans do.

Your point about terrible drivers getting better through practice doesn’t make much sense to me: - autonomous cars are also getting better with practice - we’re alway producing new batches of terrible drivers. This is unlike autonomous cars, where all cars within a particular fleet (Waymo, Cruise) are monotonically becoming better drivers

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#53

Post by chaboud »

whimsicalism wrote: post #22
jhugo wrote: post #17

> “Over one hundred people lose their lives every day on American roadways, and countless others are badly injured, Cruise said in a statement sent via email. I’m so tired of this angle being accepted at face value. Current driverless cars are not even capable of safely navigating situations that below-average human drivers rarely struggle with, like avoiding driving into clearly marked wet concrete, or not crashing…

Just because they have weird failure cases does not mean they fail more often than human drivers. FWIW as a biker in SF i feel much more comfortable around driverless than actual drivers, especially in areas like the Mission where people don’t check their right before turning onto streets like Guerrero or Valencia. The self driving ones always do

An unlicensed driver in the Mission plowed into me on my motorcycle because he panicked and slammed on the gas.

Cruise cars, conversely, generally result in close calls due to aborted lane changes, cutting me off, or absurd double parking, but I can safely assume that a Cruise car will sit at a stop sign for minutes on end of other drivers don't give it a turn.

Cruise vehicles operate like over-cautious student drivers, dangerously lacking assertiveness and commitment.

Basically, if the Mission is your bar for quality, we may as well let elementary school kids drive. Nonetheless, Cruise vehicles for into that tapestry quite nicely. Unless I'm going to the Mission, it's best to avoid it altogether.

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#54

Post by [deleted] »

paul7986 wrote: post #38
s0rce wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a human that drove into wet concrete: https://www.wlwt.com/article/car-drives-through-wet-concrete... I'm sure its not that uncommon just not publicized, people are terrible drivers.

Yes and the driver probably was impaired and fined/charged and possibly lost their license. So with that in mind Cruise's hive mind controls all it's cars and they need to lose their license immediately before it does what Uber's not ready for prime time car did and killed a pedesterian!

[deleted]

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#55

Post by shwaj »

lumost wrote: post #44
swid wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cruise released a statement which said the car did hear the siren when it was louder than background noise. No indication how close the siren was for that to happen, but it sounds pretty definitive that audio sensors are already part of the kit.

How good are those sensors relative to human ears? Human ears are still freakishly effective at filtering out background noise.

A small nit (sorry): it’s probably not a matter of sensor quality (decent quality microphones are not very expensive), but rather the neural networks that process the audio signal.

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#56

Post by bmicraft »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #21
joshuahedlund wrote: post #2

> The latest Cruise incident occurred Thursday night when a Cruise robotaxi and an emergency vehicle crashed and left a passenger injured. Cruise said in a social media post that one of its self-driving Chevy Bolt EVs entered an intersection on a green traffic light at Polk and Turk streets when it was struck by an emergency vehicle that appeared to be en route to an emergency scene. Noticing and responding to emerge…

Emergency vehicles in many areas have a strobe light that sends out a particular pattern of flashes, allowing them to turn traffic lights red as they approach. Seems like a fairly obvious step would be to mandate that self-driving cars recognize those strobes.

If the light is already turning red that might be the more obvious indicator? Also those infrared LEDs are kinda angled upwards towards the traffic lights and might not be as visible from the road

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#57

Post by KennyBlanken »

jhugo wrote: post #17

> “Over one hundred people lose their lives every day on American roadways, and countless others are badly injured, Cruise said in a statement sent via email. I’m so tired of this angle being accepted at face value. Current driverless cars are not even capable of safely navigating situations that below-average human drivers rarely struggle with, like avoiding driving into clearly marked wet concrete, or not crashing…

They're engaged in a standard PR / argument technique of whataboutism. When facing negative PR, you blather about something else positive. One reason is that you're pushing the positive info into people's brains even if they know what you're doing, and the second: there are tons of morons who will happily eat the "this random positive thing offsets or excuses the negative thing."

"Your cars aren't stopping for police pulling them over for traffic violations, and even driving off from officers who have no idea what to do because regulators are firmly in the industry's pocket and not requiring firms offer solid ways for first responders to command these vehicle's control systems, or at least committing to having a human supervisor available to quickly take remote control of the vehicle and move it."

PR response: "but what about all those crashes human drivers get into that we don't?"

...which doesn't change the fact that we have vehicles running around that are almost completely free from policing.

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#58

Post by lukeschlather »

Zuiii wrote: post #51
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [2015] In California alone, 431 people died in accidents involving young drivers[0] By your logic we should also stop allowing 15-20 year olds to learn how to drive in public. So far the robots have done less damage. [0] https://www.inlandempirelawyers.com/blog/young-driver-accide...

So? No need to increase that number by allowing half-developed machine to kill even more people. Having those kids on the road is a necessary evil. Having those dumb machines on the road is not. AI should be trained safely off the roads or not at all. If those companies don't know how then that's their problem, not ours.

Why is it necessary to train kids on the road in real driving conditions but not necessary to train AI on the road in real driving conditions? These AIs have probably hundreds of thousands of hours of incident-free driving in simulation. Kids aren't even required to do a single hour in a simulator before they're allowed on the roads.

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#59

Post by KirillPanov »

jhugo wrote: post #17

> “Over one hundred people lose their lives every day on American roadways, and countless others are badly injured, Cruise said in a statement sent via email. I’m so tired of this angle being accepted at face value. Current driverless cars are not even capable of safely navigating situations that below-average human drivers rarely struggle with, like avoiding driving into clearly marked wet concrete, or not crashing…

> like avoiding driving into clearly marked wet concrete, or not crashing into an emergency vehicle that has its sirens and lights blazing

Or just a simple left turn without a green arrow.

Re: Cruise told by CA DMV to reduce robotaxi fleet 50% following crash

#60

Post by KirillPanov »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #2

> The latest Cruise incident occurred Thursday night when a Cruise robotaxi and an emergency vehicle crashed and left a passenger injured. Cruise said in a social media post that one of its self-driving Chevy Bolt EVs entered an intersection on a green traffic light at Polk and Turk streets when it was struck by an emergency vehicle that appeared to be en route to an emergency scene. Noticing and responding to emerge…

And the training data for that situation is hundreds/thousands of times less plentiful than training data for other scenarios.
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