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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#51

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

I've switched to Neovim, but there doesn't seem to be a macOS UI nvim client that's quite as polished as MacVim.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#52

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

Well, why should I? I don't need a reason not to do everything, by default I'm not doing things, it's changing from status quo that requires a reason.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#53
post #46
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an opinion backed by watching Open Source projects for several decades. Long lived forks are rarely good for an individual project. Frankly, the most successful forks I've seen unfortunately... kind of strangle off the original. Jenkins/Huson, LibreOffice/OpenOffice, MariaDB/MySQL, ConsoleZ/Console2/... Though there are cases where the original wins out: Emacs/XEmacs, etc. Especially since it's not like Vim/Neo…

Eh I'm not going to go through your list, but putting libre/open office on there is disingenuous. Open office was run into the ground by Oracle, not because of the forking.

Couldn't you say the same about Hudson and MySQL?

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#54
post #28
post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

This is one of the reasons that I’ve begun to pare down the number of online financial accounts I have, even though churning for bonuses is fun. Every single one will have to be dealt with eventually by someone, so if I can reduce the number of banks I deal with it’s worth it, even at some small cost of not being “perfectly optimal”.

Yeah I used to have a massive spreadsheet tracking the entirety of household finances. I was worried that no one would know where the money was if I suddenly died, so I started a monthly finance 1:1 with my spouse. Even wrote an "upon death or incapacitation" playbook for her.

The second session was just her saying WTF I can't keep track of the location, ownership and tax benefits of 40 accounts!

I've since closed 3/4 of all accounts because of that.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#56
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>better if they merge You and meitham are very focused on this, but it is very much an opinion and not a fact.

It is an opinion backed by watching Open Source projects for several decades. Long lived forks are rarely good for an individual project. Frankly, the most successful forks I've seen unfortunately... kind of strangle off the original. Jenkins/Huson, LibreOffice/OpenOffice, MariaDB/MySQL, ConsoleZ/Console2/... Though there are cases where the original wins out: Emacs/XEmacs, etc. Especially since it's not like Vim/Neo…

The first three all have the same story though, where Oracle acquired the project, forced changes that drove the original authors out, who then forked the project and resumed development there. So Hudson/OpenOfice/MySQL essentially lost the key developers that had all the institutional knowledge, killing them.

I do think there would be a lot to gain to merge vim/neovim, but they're in a very different position. I don't know enough about the other two forks to draw parallels to them.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#57
post #38
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neovim team has always been positive towards Vim. This post doesn't paint the Vim team as being hostile either. However, I really wonder how practical a merge is, considering that neovim isn't a fork or Vim, rather an implementation from scratch. Edit: Looks like I'm wrong about neovim not being a fork of vim.

It's not an implementation from scratch, do you know the history of the projects? Neovim started out as a large clean up and refactor of Vim code, plus the addition of async code. That's a huge amount of work, partially re-implemented by Vim (Bram implemented his own version of async). Actually, after the Neovim launch a lot of the Vim features were just Bram chasing after Neovim features. Vim9script, :term, etc. I t…

Bram evidently had his own way, since he didn't let anyone else make commits to the project. That's fair, and in that situation forks are expected.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#58
post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

I've recently been planning for my death, no urgent need, but you never know.

I've put a backup of my keepass passwords on a USB as well as a printout of the passwords and the master password in a firebox. I also keep a list of assets and financial accounts in there along with birth certificates and passports. My spouse and I both have a key.

I would have used a safe deposit box but those are disappearing.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#59
post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

I had a similar situation where I lost my brother very unexpectedly. I ended up having to run a password cracker on his windows account because nobody had a recovery email. Thankfully his windows credentials were not very strong and his gaming GPU was able to crack the password in a few days using a Linux livecd, and I was able to expand from there into his 1Password account. Like you, I realized that having a trusted second party with the keys to my digital kingdom would be a wise choice in case of a disaster.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#60
post #47

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

Ubiquity. I have Vim on every machine I log into without installing anything extra.

In my experience, Nvim and Vim are similar enough that I don't have any trouble SSHing into any server with Vim and using it after using Nvim all day for development. So far Nvim has been a purely opt-in experience for me.
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