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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#41

Post by bhaak »

nerdponx wrote: post #7
meitham wrote: post #3

I do hope this gets taken as a chance to merge Vim and Neovim, otherwise a divided community is not great for the editor

They're already getting to the point of being two different editors with a common lineage and legacy support for Vimscript. The Neovim people also probably don't want to re-merge with Vim, it would probably have to be Vim basically winding down development. Doesn't seem likely.

> They're already getting to the point of being two different editors with a common lineage and legacy support for Vimscript.

Let's see how much traction Vimscript9 will get. From the distant view of an outsider I got strong NIH vibes from that.

> it would probably have to be Vim basically winding down development. Doesn't seem likely.

It depends on how much Bram was the main focus point of development and if the remaining contributors are able to transition to a less centric development structure.

I would rather expect a EGCS/GCC "merger" than a true code merger. But only time will tell.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#42

Post by OJFord »

bombcar wrote: post #28
OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

This is one of the reasons that I’ve begun to pare down the number of online financial accounts I have, even though churning for bonuses is fun. Every single one will have to be dealt with eventually by someone, so if I can reduce the number of banks I deal with it’s worth it, even at some small cost of not being “perfectly optimal”.

Banks are the last thing I'd worry about (I wouldn't) - they're highly regulated, audited, and have been dealing with this forever, since before 'passwords'.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#43

Post by sdfghswe »

petepete wrote: post #39
sdfghswe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my admittedly somewhat limited experience, neovim felt a bit more sluggish to launch. Not a good sign.

nvim --clean --startuptime /tmp/neovim 003.174 000.001: --- NVIM STARTED --- vs vim --clean --startuptime /tmp/vim 004.274 000.001: --- VIM STARTED --- Maybe your config had an impact on it, but config-free they're incredibly close.

3/4 seconds??? Something's wrong with your system, right?

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#44

Post by bombcar »

OJFord wrote: post #42
bombcar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons that I’ve begun to pare down the number of online financial accounts I have, even though churning for bonuses is fun. Every single one will have to be dealt with eventually by someone, so if I can reduce the number of banks I deal with it’s worth it, even at some small cost of not being “perfectly optimal”.

Banks are the last thing I'd worry about (I wouldn't) - they're highly regulated, audited, and have been dealing with this forever, since before 'passwords'.

I have no worry about the funds being lost. It’s just imagining my heirs having to contact and close fifty+ accounts.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#45

Post by enriquto »

fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

> what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

You should ask, and answer, the question in reverse. What does neovim offer me, as a regular vim user? I don't see anything particularly interesting for my usage, so I don't have any reason to change. Also, some features are missing (like gvim-gtk, that I enjoy using to edit LaTeX occasionally).

Furthermore, as of today, plain vim has an aura of venerability due to Bram's legacy that neovim cannot match. So I'll stick with vim.

It would make sense to port back some of the most popular neovim features into vim. It is a good thing to have innovative forks that experiment aggressively with new features.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#46

Post by tokai »

oblio wrote: post #20
tokai wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>better if they merge You and meitham are very focused on this, but it is very much an opinion and not a fact.

It is an opinion backed by watching Open Source projects for several decades. Long lived forks are rarely good for an individual project. Frankly, the most successful forks I've seen unfortunately... kind of strangle off the original. Jenkins/Huson, LibreOffice/OpenOffice, MariaDB/MySQL, ConsoleZ/Console2/... Though there are cases where the original wins out: Emacs/XEmacs, etc. Especially since it's not like Vim/Neo…

Eh I'm not going to go through your list, but putting libre/open office on there is disingenuous. Open office was run into the ground by Oracle, not because of the forking.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#47

Post by mrzool »

fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

Ubiquity. I have Vim on every machine I log into without installing anything extra.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#48

Post by petepete »

sdfghswe wrote: post #43
petepete wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nvim --clean --startuptime /tmp/neovim 003.174 000.001: --- NVIM STARTED --- vs vim --clean --startuptime /tmp/vim 004.274 000.001: --- VIM STARTED --- Maybe your config had an impact on it, but config-free they're incredibly close.

3/4 seconds??? Something's wrong with your system, right?

They're milliseconds!

I abbreviated the output, if you run the above command and check the file, at the top it says

   times in msec

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#49

Post by nicechianti »

OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

[dead]

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#50

Post by kzrdude »

nicce wrote: post #21
tokai wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>better if they merge You and meitham are very focused on this, but it is very much an opinion and not a fact.

It depends on the differences of their goals and principles. It is fact that 1 + 1 > 1 if you compare available resources.

Vim was developed by Bram commiting and controlling every change. Neovim very much already unlocked a greater than one situation by adopting a different development model.
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