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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#51

Post by kelseyfrog »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The unfortunate state of things is that we've run out of the problems that we can solve and are left with the problem we can't solve.

Our society/species is pretty terrible with problems that involve diffuse responsibility. Part of the problem is that we don't have social technologies equipped to handle diffuse responsibility, and another is that we have social agents who exploit this social bug to make money.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#52

Post by da39a3ee »

HideousKojima wrote: post #25
goda90 wrote: post #3

They're all in my yard... Seriously, the number of birds I've seen in my yard and neighborhood is way higher than in years past. I don't know what the explanation is. Maybe the local population has had a boom, or other food sources have disappeared and they have chosen my corner of suburbia. My first assumption was that they were rebounding after a few years of avian flu.

Same, I've literally had a half dozen juvenile sparrows sitting on my bedroom windowsills for the past several days chirping up a storm while their parents fly back and forth feeding them bugs. Plus countless robins, sparrows, sandpipers, and starlings all over the neighborhood.

Yes, those birds are basically human commensals -- thriving in urban environments. (Not sandpipers though! I wonder what you meant there?) But being serious -- are you familiar with some of the species that you only see if you go to genuine natural habitat? They are beautiful things, it is very rewarding to see them in their natural habitat, and if humans do not preserve natural habitat they will be lost forever.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#53

Post by foobarian »

hasmanean wrote: post #41
leeoniya wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pollution, habitat destruction, and climate change are not all different things. i guess you can blame all the above on a single root cause, though: human over-population. we just don't have plagues and famines like we used to; we're really good at killing everything that we don't like. i see my neighbors dousing their lawn with weed killer and pesticides every season, followed by grass nutrients! then burn 2gal of g…

Not over-population. Over consumption. Actually over-production since a lot of food is wasted before consumption.

But why is over-consumption even possible? It's the plentiful cheap energy in the form of fossil fuels that we figured out how to tap into. Once that is gone I am hopeful the next civilization cycle will be more temperate.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#54

Post by tspike »

leeoniya wrote: post #38
nostromo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions habitat destruction and agriculture as the driving issue, not climate change. > The hardest hit were grassland birds, down by more than 50 percent, mostly due to the expansion of farms that turn a varied landscape into acres of neat, plowed rows.

pollution, habitat destruction, and climate change are not all different things. i guess you can blame all the above on a single root cause, though: human over-population. we just don't have plagues and famines like we used to; we're really good at killing everything that we don't like. i see my neighbors dousing their lawn with weed killer and pesticides every season, followed by grass nutrients! then burn 2gal of g…

Don’t forget that if you don’t saturate your lawn with poison, coat it with industrial fertilizer, water it from depleted aquifers and burn that gasoline to cut it, you run the risk of getting fined or being foreclosed upon.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#55

Post by JackFr »

themitigating wrote: post #24
leeoniya wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people don't change even with the threat of human life being lost then there's no way they care if multiple species of birds goes extinct. people won't change. they are addicted to convenience, low prices, diversity in options, and unlimited availability. which is also great for corporate profits. as a species, humans plan and invest very little beyond our own lifetimes. but we're just animals after all. all the…

Bullshit. That's cultural. Look at nordic countries. Norway has a seed vault and has 80% of new cars are electric. Renewables in Europe are still moving at great speed https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/renewables/europe-renewabl... You just won't say the real people who are to blame. You want to lay the blame on all people equally

Norway’s economy is dependent on fossil fuels which represent over 50% of their exports and 20% of their GDP.

The idea that Norway holds some sort of moral high ground with respect to fossil fuels is offensive.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#56

Post by LastTrain »

ekianjo wrote: post #42
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Thats what happens in countries with powerful welfare states. People will default to think that the government should solve all of their problems

Sure, but it’s even worse in the non-nanny states

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#57

Post by jimmytidey »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Royal Society for the Protection of Birds is the largest charity in the UK by membership. People do take a lot of direct personal action on this topic.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#58

Post by metadaemon »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Yeah, really the only top-down solution that would be effective against the worst offenders is their permanent cessation.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#59

Post by 23B1 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #51
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

The unfortunate state of things is that we've run out of the problems that we can solve and are left with the problem we can't solve. Our society/species is pretty terrible with problems that involve diffuse responsibility. Part of the problem is that we don't have social technologies equipped to handle diffuse responsibility, and another is that we have social agents who exploit this social bug to make money.

Well put. I thought about bringing up the many, many solar panel scams. What an absolute shame.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#60

Post by leeoniya »

tspike wrote: post #54
leeoniya wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pollution, habitat destruction, and climate change are not all different things. i guess you can blame all the above on a single root cause, though: human over-population. we just don't have plagues and famines like we used to; we're really good at killing everything that we don't like. i see my neighbors dousing their lawn with weed killer and pesticides every season, followed by grass nutrients! then burn 2gal of g…

Don’t forget that if you don’t saturate your lawn with poison, coat it with industrial fertilizer, water it from depleted aquifers and burn that gasoline to cut it, you run the risk of getting fined or being foreclosed upon.

> you run the risk of getting fined or being foreclosed upon

yes! i was fined because my dandelions crossed the magical 8" threshold for a week a few seasons ago. i happily paid it of course. you see, i had saved up the $20 by then with all the money i didnt spend on weed killer and fertilizer.

i'm just the worst person in my HOA.

the irony, of course, is that immediately behind my 0.2 acre property is a massive wetland with "grass" that's 10-15ft tall.

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