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The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

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Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#51

Post by brvsft »

mantas wrote: post #9

Iphone battery is already pretty close to replaceable by this law. You need a common tool to get in (trident screwdriver is available in most DIY shops), then glue tabs can be pried by hand. Doable for layman? Well, some people are afraid of opening up a device in any way. How do we (or, rather, lawyers) draw a line?

Those tabs are not that easy to pull by hand. Very easy to break and then you're forced to pry out the battery, which is less safe than if it didn't need prying.

I know the glue is unnecessary because every time I've replaced a battery, I didn't glue the new one back in, and my phone performed fine.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#52

Post by poetaster »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
systemtest wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia has been sold, I don't know about any EU smartphone brands outside of Fairphone. The market is so small that adding regulation isn't hurting the EU, which is why its an easy target compared to the automotive industry.

> I don't know about any EU smartphone brands outside of Fairphone. That's your problem then, don't you think? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_brands_by... Now, whether all of these are actually manufactured locally or not is another matter, but the EU definitely is regulating its own market. As they have been empowered to do so. I'm all for it. And I would love to see standardized battery packs fo…

The wp article does mention gigaset and https://www.shiftphones.com/ but not Fairphone nor https://www.carbonmobile.com/ who as with shift and gigaset are building manufacturing in Germany (mostly north east). Shift has a plant in China and just does finishing in Germany. But that's a given, I believe. Can't source all things in one country. Or?

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#53

Post by rlupi »

jacquesm wrote: post #17
onli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually in the article :) one of the two laws covers all devices with ~~batteries~~ portable batteries.

Thank you! Edit: Hm, I re-read the article and I still can't find that passage, the word 'laptop' doesn't appear. Can you point it out for me?

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-9-2023-0237...

> (11) This Regulation should apply to all categories of batteries placed on the market or put into service within the Union, regardless of whether they were produced in the Union or imported. It should apply regardless of whether a battery is incorporated into appliances, light means of transport or other vehicles or otherwise added to products or whether a battery is placed on the market or put into service within the Union on its own. This Regulation should apply regardless of whether a battery is specifically designed for a product or is of general use and regardless of whether it is incorporated into a product or is supplied together with or separately from a product in which it is to be used. Placing on the market is considered to take place when the battery has been made available for the first time on the Union market, by being supplied by the manufacturer or importer for distribution, consumption or use in the course of a commercial activity, whether in return for payment or free of charge. Thus, batteries placed in stock in the Union by distributors, including retailers, wholesalers and sales divisions of manufacturers, before the date of application of relevant requirements of this Regulation do not need to meet those requirements.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#54

Post by vladvasiliu »

nuker wrote: post #33

I’d hate to lose waterproof feature on iPhone. For it’ll be dealbreaker.

FWIW, my old iPhone 7 started to have a bulging battery. It started pushing on the screen, which started separating from the case. Since I could see the innards, that thing was probably no longer waterproof. I'd have to take it in for service, and I'm not certain that they guarantee its water tightness after a repair.

Contrast this to my Galaxy S5. When the battery started bulging, I changed it with a new one, and I was back to the races.

Bonus points for the whole ordeal taking 5 minutes to go in the store, grab the battery, pay, and replace it. Compared to the circus that was apple's certified repair shop, which didn't quite understand how appointments work, and took 6 hours to replace the battery.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#55

Post by vladvasiliu »

minimaul wrote: post #48
adhvaryu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doable for layman? Well, some people are afraid of opening up a device in any way. How do we (or, rather, lawyers) draw a line? Start by not requiring a screwdriver in the process of changing batteries. I remember the early days of Samsung/Android phones where you only needed to pry open the back cover using your nail and the battery was easily taken out. It's a small change but the layman will be way less afraid.

My experience was that those kinds of back covers would always come loose over time and/or after they were removed a few times they never fit properly again.

Maybe it depends on how they're made.

My Galaxy S5's cover never had any issues, even after a few months with a bulging battery. It stayed in place no problem, and the phone was still waterproof enough to not care at all about being in the pouring rain on a motorcycle for several hours at a time.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#56

Post by vladvasiliu »

mvanbaak wrote: post #50
adhvaryu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doable for layman? Well, some people are afraid of opening up a device in any way. How do we (or, rather, lawyers) draw a line? Start by not requiring a screwdriver in the process of changing batteries. I remember the early days of Samsung/Android phones where you only needed to pry open the back cover using your nail and the battery was easily taken out. It's a small change but the layman will be way less afraid.

Those phones were not water resistant. While maybe not important to some, to others it is

The Galaxy S5 was IP67 rated. The back cover could be opened with just a fingernail.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#58

Post by tomjen3 »

microtonal wrote: post #24
bjackman wrote: post #4

I think this is fantastic news. It will be interesting to see how it affects the amount of phones that get discarded. I think the next bottleneck is likely to be software longevity. This has improved a lot lately! But basically I think phones have now reached a place like laptops and desktops where HW capabilities are stable, and there's no good reason for devices to be obsolete in 5 years any more. I wonder if regul…

The second proposed legislation from the article seems to require that at least 5 years of updates must be provided after the device was last sold. This is far more than many low-end and mid-range Android phones, moreover many Android phone manufacturers start counting after the device was released, not last sold. Interestingly, they also seem to put upper bounds on how quickly these updates should be rolled out. Eg.…

Is it? It is going to meant that Android can't take advantage of the high end features of the new phones that are being released, and that old and slow phones are going to get updates that makes them run even slower.

To top it of, it is not like manufacturers are into throwing away money, so this will likely mean that prices on the cheapest phones will increase more.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#59

Post by seba_dos1 »

ekianjo wrote: post #19
seba_dos1 wrote: post #2

I have never used a phone (nor a laptop) where the battery wasn't easily replaceable and to be honest I can't really imagine using one. Batteries can (and do) go bad and start expanding. Using a device where the battery isn't easily accessible feels absolutely distressing.

> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.

Thankfully, in the niche I'm interested in it's still common. On my Librem 5 I can replace the battery with nothing but a fingernail to take the back cover out, and could do so the same way on all the other smartphone's I've used in the past too.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#60

Post by jacquesm »

systemtest wrote: post #49
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know about any EU smartphone brands outside of Fairphone. That's your problem then, don't you think? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_brands_by... Now, whether all of these are actually manufactured locally or not is another matter, but the EU definitely is regulating its own market. As they have been empowered to do so. I'm all for it. And I would love to see standardized battery packs fo…

> That's your problem then, don't you think? No need to play the man or be belittling. Point still stands that the EU smartphone market is so little that any regulation isn't hurting them. Regulation on car repairability definitely would, hence why you stil need to visit the BMW dealer if you want to change the 12-volt battery or activate your heated seats. The EU will not likely do anything about that.

It is their market to regulate.

And right to repair is very much a part of EU regulations. Without those regulations you'd be in a far worse situation.

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/automotiv...

If BMW idiocy gets you upset: don't drive BMW. My car is 25 and I can do just about anything I want on it. Your beef is first and foremost with BMW, and I'm fairly sure that if the EU deems this kind of behavior anti competitive it will be smacked down, even if the participants are all EU based.

You seem to want regulation to be perfect, but in light of manufacturer abuses it's a catch-up game.

https://www.automotiveworld.com/articles/how-far-will-the-in...

Is a good article on the subject, it also helps to see that there is a fine line between what has to be made available and be subscription free and where manufacturers may have some leeway.

I agree with you that changing out a battery (which is a pretty common affair) should never require a trip to the stealer.

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