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Visual Studio '11' Announced

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Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#51
post #19
post #13

Do new tabs still open to the left of the current tab? Drives me absolutely insane.

Tools -> Options -> Documents Check "Insert documents to the right of existing tabs".

But why is it the default? Why not match the existing tab behavior of every web browser?

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#52
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So...you're wrong on most accounts. VS 2010 is plenty fast and plenty of people build plenty of cross platform apps and web apps using Visual Studio. Honestly, I think you should really just consider checking your attitude and your politics at the door because hating Microsoft and all that "ghastly" proprietary software is just so passe. It's boring and nobody cares that you think proprietary software is evil.

fast is a relative term. If we're talking about VS 2010, then it's fast versus building an IDE with ed on your own. Honestly, I think you should really just consider checking your attitude and your politics at the door because loving Microsoft and all that proprietary software is just so old-school. It's boring and nobody cares that you think free software is evil.

Right, except nothing that I said conveyed any sort of gushing "love" for Microsoft or proprietary versus any other software.

Listing "it's proprietary" immediately before "it's slow" OTOH? Yeah, it's pretty telling where that comment is coming from.

If you don't like it, why come out of your way to make a negative comment about it unless you're just being a hater?

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#53

Interesting thing about VS and Xcode is that they do not really try to compete with somebody or fight for attention. Both Windows and Mac/iOS developers would use less useful tools if they still let them make products for the popular platforms. JetBrains, Borland and others are fighting for attention and developers' love. They must try really-really hard to make people choose an alternative to the official tools. So…

It isn't clear if you meant to imply that Apple has made better decisions with Xcode. If that is what you are saying, I firmly disagree. This isn't meant to imply that MS is better. Having said that, I don't mind complexity in UI for professional tools. I've been programming for longer than a lot of people on this list have been alive (an assumption on my part). You learn the tool you have to use and move on. No big deal.

I have problems with dumb-ass decisions that make your job harder. Like compilers that don't accept /a/path/that has/spaces/in the string/. Or the absolutely dumb-founding way Xcode does not let you organize your files in a real file structure, you know, with directories and stuff, in the file system. Or how hard Xcode makes it to create use and maintain code libraries. I don't need my IDE to look and act like an iTunes clone. Thank you very much. Pretty doesn't matter to me. Easy and incredibly flexible and functional does. I mean, take the way they've absolutely ruined documentation access in Xcode 4 when compared to Xcode 3. True to iTunes style, the Organizer is overloaded with all kinds of crap it probably shouldn't do.

Anyhow, no tool is perfect, but there are salient examples of the less-than-perfect even in 2012.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#54
post #24

I'm sorry, but I use color to locate things. This, to me, is a disaster. If this isn't a problem for other people, fine, but it's a problem to me. A better solution would have been to use less color and desaturated tones rather than simply going to full on black and white, which serves only to rob the IDE of potential visual cues. This is like using a cannon to kill a bird. Just because they overcolorized VS2010 for…

[deleted]

This is not true. You _can_ develop programs that only work on Windows, but you can also choose your technologies carefully and make .NET programs that work on Mono. you can code stuff targeting other languages and so on.

It's developer's choice whether or not to code portable.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#55
post #12

Sure it looks all pretty, but have they made it faster and more reliable? VS2010 is just damn slow and falls over on me at least 2-3 times a day which is not acceptable. When you pay for 25 VS2010 premium licenses with MSDN on top of your gold partner allowance, you expect it to work.

Speed is fine here and I generally enjoy working with VS 10 when I'm on Windows (showing errors while typing is a fantastic feature which I haven's seen for c++ before VS10). But my annoying VS 10 bug is that approximately once per week it simply refuses rebuilding a changed c++ file until I clean and rebuild the whole project. It just continues using the old object file despite having c++ files with a newer date - and what makes this really annoying is that this is a bug you certainly only notice after a while when results just stop making sense. Others in the project have the same trouble - maybe we messed up some setting, but we haven't found any setting yet about simply ignoring source-changes...

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#56
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that C++ support and they still don't support C99...

Microsoft does not care about C99. C++ is the official systems programming language in Windows, as has been communicated several times. C89 is good enough for writing device drivers, the only place Microsoft still advises to use C instead of C++. As for C99 support it is not as if Microsoft would be the only one not supporting it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C99#Implementations To be honest I think C99 and C11 will…

Are you looking at the same table I am looking at? All major compilers except MSVC 'mostly' support C99...

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#57
post #51
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tools -> Options -> Documents Check "Insert documents to the right of existing tabs".

But why is it the default? Why not match the existing tab behavior of every web browser?

Actually both IE and Firefox now (I think) insert tabs to the left. I don't know why it became a 'thing' at some point, I dislike it enormously as well.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#58

It's interesting that Microsoft chose to adopt monochrome icons after Mac OS X / iTunes adopted monochrome icons. I'd be curious if Apple's design was a major influence on Microsoft's designers, or if the idea for monochrome icons came primarily from independent research/user testing.

FWIW, I first noticed the "use monochrome icons to reduce distraction" approach in Windows 7, when it was applied to the default system tray icons. I think that predates the Apple trend (but I don't follow Apple closely enough to know).

I suspect these kinds of things tend to just be general "design" trends though - I bet the people designing these interfaces probably talk to each other, subscribe to the same magazines, read the same articles, follow the same non-software industrial designers and artists etc.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#59
Developers beware: Visual C++ 11 cannot compile executables that work on Windows XP at all:

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/...

C++ devs may want to skip this release and just go for Visual C++ 12 when it's out, since by then hopefully XP will be ignorable.

Re: Visual Studio '11' Announced

#60

I like the new decolorized look. The colors don't seem to add much and are a bit noisy.

Colours help to differentiate between icons. It's much easier to differentiate between and identify two differently coloured icons at a glance, than two monochrome icons.
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