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Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

ravitejakanta.substack.com

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Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#51

Post by neilv »

ajb wrote: post #49
neilv wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that a scrappy organization wouldn't have a wall to toss anything over. If a wall did accidentally appear in a scrappy org, maybe the wall gets knocked over, and the trash collegially tossed back, with an offer to work together on something that will work? Stereotypical lumbering bureaucracies can appropriate terms all day, and people mimicking them can also mimic their appropriations, and management books…

I think I'm taking about a different failure mode. To have a "wall" you don't need a large organisation, just leadership that has certain blindspots or beliefs that they don't allow to be challenged. (I know I'm being a bit vague, I can't go into the specifics unfortunately).

I might've heard of that kind of situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35344635

Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#52

Post by mattmanser »

darod wrote: post #26

first "code ninjas" now "street fighting" engineers and "martial art" engineers? really? I feel like these monikers are getting a little silly especially since you'd never see the reverse.

There's been a glut of these "two types of programmer" articles the last few days, it's just a stupid trend.

Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#53

Post by ajb »

neilv wrote: post #51
ajb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm taking about a different failure mode. To have a "wall" you don't need a large organisation, just leadership that has certain blindspots or beliefs that they don't allow to be challenged. (I know I'm being a bit vague, I can't go into the specifics unfortunately).

I might've heard of that kind of situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35344635

Well, there's that, yes. But I think there can also be an excessive belief in the power of scrappiness and agility, that it can overcome any issue, so no actual consultation or forethought before committing the company is useful. Any pushback being dismissed as "big company thinking"

Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#57

Post by neilv »

ajb wrote: post #53
neilv wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might've heard of that kind of situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35344635

Well, there's that, yes. But I think there can also be an excessive belief in the power of scrappiness and agility, that it can overcome any issue, so no actual consultation or forethought before committing the company is useful. Any pushback being dismissed as "big company thinking"

Definitely agreed. Variations on the word "agile" are too loaded and religious now, but I was hoping I could define "scrappy" how I want to, which at times includes shrewd planning. :)

Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#58

Post by 62951413 »

virtualritz wrote: post #48

A friend of mine who's both a kick ass engineer and great product manager once told me this analogy, which is employing similar to the one in the article: "For any software project to succeed, you need three types of developers: The kamikaze. They kick off the project, they don't care about the mountain on the horizon or the abyss less than ten clicks ahead. They get everyone on board and they will also give the colu…

Which also reminds me of "Pioneers, Settlers, Town Planners" (https://blog.gardeviance.org/2015/03/on-pioneers-settlers-to...). It points to a '93 book for the original inspiration.

Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#59

Post by Animats »

Sales reps come from the street fighter mindset. If you hire people like that, they have to be given external targets to fight. Otherwise much energy is drained off in internal fights.

"The Gamesman" (Maccoby, 1978) divided workers into "craftsmen", "organization men", "jungle fighters", and "gamesmen". Same concept, earlier decade.

Re: Street fighting engineers vs. martial arts engineers

#60

Post by inawarminister »

darod wrote: post #26

first "code ninjas" now "street fighting" engineers and "martial art" engineers? really? I feel like these monikers are getting a little silly especially since you'd never see the reverse.

Well I'm a HEMA swordsman moonlighting as a backend/LLM programmer and in many cases I think while wrestling with my spaghetti code: "How would Meyer deal with it?"

Human cross-domain capabilities are amazing.

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