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Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#51

Post by mschuster91 »

jhugo wrote: post #44
mschuster91 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually is legal and the way how Hindenburg Research (and other popular/infamous shortsellers) make money: Research and expose fraud to hold companies accountable, with a (massive) financial stake to be correct in the research. Personally, I used to be quite antagonistic to shortsellers, but at least the ones holding onto the principles of journalistic integrity and good research provide good value to society. Ju…

> Personally, I used to be quite antagonistic to shortsellers, but at least the ones holding onto the principles of journalistic integrity and good research provide good value to society. Just look at Wirecard. Which ones don't provide value to society, and how do they differ from shills with a long position?

> Which ones don't provide value to society, and how do they differ from shills with a long position?

For example, ones that bet on a stock price where the resulting market cap goes far below the net value of the company (i.e. value of assets - value of liabilities) without any indicators backing that. The "ape army" exposed these shortsellers at GME and iirc, led to the dissolution of at least two of them.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#52

Post by pavlov »

malermeister wrote: post #39
qeternity wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these takes to be so disingenuous. The dollar is used in this manner in spite of legal and regulatory efforts. Bitcoin is used in this manner bc it was designed explicitly to be immune to these efforts. I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. But at least own that view and the implications, instead of all of this fiat whataboutism.

> I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. Why? That is just another way of saying moneyed interests should be above the rule of law. What could possibly be respectable about a view this odious?

I agree. It's an extremist position to say that money should be outside the rules of society.

Let's take an experiment. Instead of "I should be free to send money to anyone anywhere", we'll replace money with a car.

"I should be free to drive my car anywhere, anytime". Sounds superficially like a reasonable proposition even? But in fact we have lots of rules that control who can drive a car, where, under what intoxication. There are driver's licenses, traffic signs, road police... Ultimately a judge will put you in jail if you exercise your freedom to drive outside of society's rules.

Now imagine someone using the pseudonym Suzuki Toyotamoto invents a car made out of floating jello with an engine that runs on nuclear waste. Many engineers will marvel at the ingenuity of the design. Some people start building their own jello blobs and driving them off-road without a license. The law says nothing explicitly about transportation inside floating jello. Eventually people take their floating jello vehicles to roads and get fined. (The jello moves barely at walking speed and drips radioactive sludge.) Outrage blows up in the floating jello community. Do the old rules apply to them? Will the whole world switch over to floating jello? (These questions may seem very important to those versed in the world of Suzuki Toyotamoto's floating jello, but most people just don't care and will happily keep using their regular cars instead of sitting in slime powered by radioactive waste.)

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#53

Post by jhugo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #51
jhugo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I used to be quite antagonistic to shortsellers, but at least the ones holding onto the principles of journalistic integrity and good research provide good value to society. Just look at Wirecard. Which ones don't provide value to society, and how do they differ from shills with a long position?

> Which ones don't provide value to society, and how do they differ from shills with a long position? For example, ones that bet on a stock price where the resulting market cap goes far below the net value of the company (i.e. value of assets - value of liabilities) without any indicators backing that. The "ape army" exposed these shortsellers at GME and iirc, led to the dissolution of at least two of them.

How do these differ from shills who pump a stock price far above the net value of the company without any indicators backing that?

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#54

Post by dragonelite »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #23
Bilal_io wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dorsey is a big Bitcoin fan, so that’s the kind of utility he appreciates. This sounds disingenuous. Not every fan of Bitcoin supports fraud, drug trafficking.. etc. The dollar is used for such bad activities, should we label everyone that loves the dollar as a supporter of fraud and drugs?

I would be interested in the percentage of 1. Bitcoin (crypto) users who (only) have BC because they hate fiat money 2. Users who have BC because they need it for illegal gains 3. Opportunistic investors 4. Web3ers I have the unsubstantiated feeling that 1 is overstated.

point 4 is pretty much 3.1

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#55

Post by jhugo »

raverbashing wrote: post #45
throw239849234 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons This category is way larger than people in well-banked Western circles realise. Bitcoin (crypto) is one of the easiest ways for people affected by capital controls or sanctions (on the financial institutions they use, or the country they were unlucky enough to be born in) to freely move their (legally earned, and taxed) money across borders. Since o…

> 5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons Did the bitcoiners forget about paper bills?

Both China and Russia have restrictions on taking paper money out of the country, which are much easier to enforce since there's a physical aspect.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#56

Post by jmeister »

posharma wrote: post #34

I know this is going to be controversial, but I think it has to be said. Jack ruined Twitter first [1] (by over-hiring and then selling it to Elon) and now it's Block's turn. He still made billions, while thousands got laid off and are still suffering under Elon's questionable so called leadership. Are these the entrepreneurs we should be looking up to? The tech industry is already facing the brunt because of the mis…

Twitter and Square wouldn’t have existed without Dorsey. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#57

Post by Kinrany »

Nursie wrote: post #43
throw239849234 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons This category is way larger than people in well-banked Western circles realise. Bitcoin (crypto) is one of the easiest ways for people affected by capital controls or sanctions (on the financial institutions they use, or the country they were unlucky enough to be born in) to freely move their (legally earned, and taxed) money across borders. Since o…

Is sanctions-evasion a good thing? Russia is currently fighting a war of aggression, applying controls on the flow of money in or out of there is one way in which the war machine can be starved.

I'm no expert, but restricting the flow of goods seems both necessary and sufficient. The war machine doesn't run on money.

A state can always find a way to hide the transactions, on the other hand.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#58

Post by posharma »

jmeister wrote: post #56
posharma wrote: post #34

I know this is going to be controversial, but I think it has to be said. Jack ruined Twitter first [1] (by over-hiring and then selling it to Elon) and now it's Block's turn. He still made billions, while thousands got laid off and are still suffering under Elon's questionable so called leadership. Are these the entrepreneurs we should be looking up to? The tech industry is already facing the brunt because of the mis…

Twitter and Square wouldn’t have existed without Dorsey. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

That doesn’t make him a good, responsible CEO.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#59

Post by sokoloff »

Nursie wrote: post #43
throw239849234 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons This category is way larger than people in well-banked Western circles realise. Bitcoin (crypto) is one of the easiest ways for people affected by capital controls or sanctions (on the financial institutions they use, or the country they were unlucky enough to be born in) to freely move their (legally earned, and taxed) money across borders. Since o…

Is sanctions-evasion a good thing? Russia is currently fighting a war of aggression, applying controls on the flow of money in or out of there is one way in which the war machine can be starved.

Whether sanctions evasion is good depends principally on which side of the sanction line you fall.
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