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Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

theguardian.com

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Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#51

Post by DiggyJohnson »

wnevets wrote: post #48

Is anyone else like me and just sick & tired of the boomerification of the public discourse? There isn't anything more wrong with kids these days compared to previous generations. Participation trophies didn't matter, foam playgrounds didn't create "soft" kids. Its all non-sense. "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the str…

Would you dismiss any evidence of generational changes in the way children are raised, in the aggregate?

Or that changes in the way children are raised don’t affect the child?

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#52

Post by themitigating »

leipert wrote: post #14
themitigating wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What state manages playground equipment?

Many, if not most, public playgrounds are maintained by the city or municipality in Germany. Here in a larger city they are checked and cleaned weekly.

So not the state?

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#53

Post by WJW »

nonethewiser wrote: post #32
lynx23 wrote: post #30

It is hard to explain, but this headline makes me sad, very sad. Not because german children are supposedly put at risk, not at all... It is the tone of finger pointing. Risk is what eventually makes us grow. A totally risk free world/life would be utterly worthless living, and perhaps a reason to attempt suicide.

Good point. Makes me think of the complete lack of suicide in more primitive cultures.

That's simply untrue. Suicide among the Greeks and Romans was at least prevalent enough to have laws written about it (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_suicide) and suicide among samurai was also certainly non-zero.

If those examples are not "primitive" enough, already in 1894 Steinmetz collated an extensive list of at least forty-two documented cases of suicide amongst what he terms "savage peoples" like the "Polar peoples, North American Indians, Bedouins, Polynesians and native races of British India". Many of the terms he uses would be frowned upon today, but the article is available for free at https://www.jstor.org/stable/658295 and clearly documents many cases of suicide even in societies untouched by Western ideas. It's quite the list, from women killing themselves for "unrequited love" to adulterers committing suicide out of fear of repercussions. In fact he concludes that suicide may even be more prevalent in primitive cultures, relative to the size of the population, because some of those societies did not seem to have a stigma or taboo against suicide (unlike western civilizations where it is/was a sin).

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#54

Post by jl6 »

magicalhippo wrote: post #26

Someone I know designed playgrounds. One of his core concepts was that there's two aspects to safety. One is subjective. Like when you're high up and you see the ground beneath you, you know it'll hurt if you fall down, so you're more careful moving around. Then there's all the hidden dangers that kids don't think about or see[1], like a small gap where a cord from the clothing can get attached potentially leading to…

There’s a broader lesson here about finding ways to teach kids to handle minor failures in a consequence-capped environment.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#55

Post by matsemann »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #37
chmod775 wrote: post #15

These things are ubiquitous in Berlin: https://stage.berliner-seilfabrik.com/wp-content/uploads/201... They're not actually that high to an adult, but I have childhood memories of these seeming somewhat tall and scary. On an average one, a young child can fall 4-6 times their own height (but not straight, you'll get buffered by the structure as you go down).

Pretty common in Paris too. I wish they made versions that were socially acceptable for adults to climb. These things were awesome .

I'm only semi-joking, but perhaps join an obstacle course race, or a gymnastics class for adults. I've done both, and it's been so much fun. The obstacle course is all kinds of weird things you have to climb over and under (I'd avoid the mud variants, unless you like that aspect, though). And even though I never did gymnastics as a kid and am stiff as a stick, it was great fun to play around in a big hall with other equally bad adults trying to do gymnastics, climb ropes, forward rolls, jump into foam pits etc.

Like being a kid again.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#56

Post by matsemann »

janmarsal wrote: post #9

I remember when I was a teen I started noticing how the nanny state had managed to remove all the old swings I used to play with and replaced them with some tiny and safe swings that no one even uses anymore. Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school all of a sudden. I'm glad there's at least some backlash to this nonsense.

> Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school all of a sudden

Ban cars around schools. Ironically, the danger to kids walking to school is other parents driving their kid to school (a bit stressed, over the limit and probably on their phone).

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#57

Post by Fricken »

wnevets wrote: post #48

Is anyone else like me and just sick & tired of the boomerification of the public discourse? There isn't anything more wrong with kids these days compared to previous generations. Participation trophies didn't matter, foam playgrounds didn't create "soft" kids. Its all non-sense. "What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the str…

It's not a "kids these days" thing. It's a modernity thing. The first person to make a lot of noise about this was Georges Herbert, a French physical educator who is regarded as the inventor of the military obstacle course, and who was broadly influential in shaping physical education programs, largely throughout Europe and the eastern block in the 20th century.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_H%C3%A9bert

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#58

Post by leipert »

themitigating wrote: post #52
leipert wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, if not most, public playgrounds are maintained by the city or municipality in Germany. Here in a larger city they are checked and cleaned weekly.

So not the state?

Depends on your definition of state. If you really want to dig into it:

The country, Germany, or a federal state like Bavaria, likely not directly but indirectly, due to how our tax system works. Different entities collect different taxes, but the cities and municipalities get a certain percentage of wage and sales tax for example. Often those taxes are not bound to be used for a certain purpose.

But also we have city-states liked Berlin or Hamburg, and those directly fund and maintain their playgrounds.

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#59

Post by Fricken »

themitigating wrote: post #11

Children don't know better and getting hurt isn't always the best way to learn because their could be permanent consequences

There could be permanent consequences either way. Children of overprotective parents tend to live less:

https://neurosciencenews.com/overprotective-parents-child-lo...

Re: Learning the ropes: why Germany is building risk into its playgrounds (2021)

#60

Post by microtonal »

chmod775 wrote: post #15

These things are ubiquitous in Berlin: https://stage.berliner-seilfabrik.com/wp-content/uploads/201... They're not actually that high to an adult, but I have childhood memories of these seeming somewhat tall and scary. On an average one, a young child can fall 4-6 times their own height (but not straight, you'll get buffered by the structure as you go down).

Also in The Netherlands, our kid's after-school care playground has one. There is a quite tall one at another playground:

https://speleninstad.nl/mooiste-speeltuinen/speelplek-hoorns...

I grew up in a smaller village. We often climbed trees. I am pretty sure that this is safer.

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