Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives • Hacker News Board

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#51

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 12:16 PM UTC

bsaul wrote: post #14

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If doctors and psychologists do this, why do you assume they haven't determined that it's a net positive given the evidence and thus a rational thing to do?

If the US were a sane democracy with a proven ability to have pragmatic and purely scientific debate on hot topic, i'd be following you. However, the topic is being highly politicized, and so i'm very sure the doctor and psychologists opinions aren't purely medical on this topic anymore.

> If the US were a sane democracy with a proven ability to have pragmatic and purely scientific debate on hot topic

This topic is being weaponized by the far-right because it triggers primal fears on the "you will not replace us" crowd.

I don't see anyone in the political left manufacturing outrage about this.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#52

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 12:45 PM UTC

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #13

rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.

These are growing pains caused by the U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues. So (if you think trans issues are legitimate), relative to the rest of the world, maybe the U.S. needs the least fixing. :p

> U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues.

Florida is, but only in the sense Republicans are working on a "final solution to the trans question".

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#53

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 1:46 PM UTC

xracy wrote: post #49

smeej wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "0.3-3.8% regret" statistic comes from this summary of the literature, which does not have sources before 2017: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equali... The claim that this is current despite the massive uptick in children identifying as trans (again, a 30x increase), needs a current citation.

I was asking for citations for your claims. That literature seems pretty solid, given you shared a literal collation of all of it. Importantly, increased number of children identifying as trans Does Not Mean "increased number of children who would not otherwise have identified as trans". It just means our culture is getting more accepting of trans kids, so they're not relegated to being outcasts in all cases. So your…

> Importantly, increased number of children identifying as trans Does Not Mean "increased number of children who would not otherwise have identified as trans".

A useful analogy would be the number of women who spontaneously self-identified as witches in Salem by 1692 and 1693 compared to the number who self-identified as witches in the late 1960's. Being burned to a crisp is certainly a huge downside to showing your true persona.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#54

Post by locopati » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

locustous wrote: post #45

locopati wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Maybe for some kids, it's an experiment and they're really cis, but for many (because honestly, socially transitioning is not exactly easy in many places), it is a life saving first step in understanding themselves and establishing evidence for medical profess…

> Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Local story... Boy who claims to be female and goes into the girls locker room to watch them change. He doesn't actually change or participate. Just a spectator. The girls try to hide from him. It's pretty clear by the details that he's a peeping tom just th…

One anecdote that sounds like it should have been handled by the administration of the school much better than it was.

Trans males should not be competing in girls sports. They are only doing so because of the right's insistence on unchangeable biological sex. As to the "primary reason for the change"... you're going to have to provide evidence because that's doubtful. People act like social transitioning is a walk in the park... it's not. People aren't doing it for the incredible benefits of being trans, believe me.

You sound like you have an axe to grind and maybe need to do more research and less believing the falsehoods about trans people.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#55

Post by taylodl » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 8:40 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #3

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #2

While this is quite different to the usual content, I believe that sharing this information is important for members of our community and their families in order to prepare for the possible outcomes. The title has been edited to fit. The complete title is: “Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans parents or siblings — even if they live in another state”

This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.

It's all theater. Most of Florida's laws are getting struck down in the federal courts but that's not the point - the point is for Desantis to score political points in his bid for the 2024 presidential run. All that matters is he took the appropriate steps to "own" the libs. That's what passes for Republican governance these days. I'm old enough to remember when TV cameras were called idiot magnets. Now the idiots are TV camera magnets. Such is the way of the modern world.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#56

Post by PartiallyTyped » Tue, Mar 07, 2023, 10:34 PM UTC

locustous wrote: post #48

sundaeofshock wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this? Otherwise I’m calling bullshit. This is dangerous, eliminationist, anti-trans rhetoric that should not be tolerated on HN (or any other forum).

Because a male could never actually pretend to be trans for selfish reasons? Instead of a mutually beneficial compromise like give everyone private individual dressing spaces and listening to potential victims of trans abuse in gendered spaces. You go full offensive mode on me for even suggesting the possibility. It seems that you don't want political allies, but rather political subjects... If you're actually open t…

Why would a male even bother to

- take HRT long enough to pass, which is in months if not years

- destroy their libido

- sterilize himself

- gain weight

- reduce the size of his penis

- experience near constant pain on his penis due to atrophy

- have his testicles shrink

- have erectile dysfunction

- experience all that bullying

- risk getting disowned by family

- lose friendships

so that he can commit an __opportunity__ crime?

Do you honestly find that reasonable?

Maybe the problem is not that trans women and girls exist, but that men and boys seem to be opportunistic predators.

If your claim is that the boy or man can just self-id as trans, and then enter the bathroom, then my question is, what stops them from entering it anyway? Why go through all the trouble of a possibly social transition and all that entails just to commit an opportunity crime when they could very well just go in?

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#57

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 08, 2023, 7:22 AM UTC

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #56

locustous wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a male could never actually pretend to be trans for selfish reasons? Instead of a mutually beneficial compromise like give everyone private individual dressing spaces and listening to potential victims of trans abuse in gendered spaces. You go full offensive mode on me for even suggesting the possibility. It seems that you don't want political allies, but rather political subjects... If you're actually open t…

Why would a male even bother to - take HRT long enough to pass, which is in months if not years - destroy their libido - sterilize himself - gain weight - reduce the size of his penis - experience near constant pain on his penis due to atrophy - have his testicles shrink - have erectile dysfunction - experience all that bullying - risk getting disowned by family - lose friendships so that he can commit an __opportuni…

[deleted]

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#58

Post by figlett2 » Wed, Mar 08, 2023, 7:26 AM UTC

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #56

locustous wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a male could never actually pretend to be trans for selfish reasons? Instead of a mutually beneficial compromise like give everyone private individual dressing spaces and listening to potential victims of trans abuse in gendered spaces. You go full offensive mode on me for even suggesting the possibility. It seems that you don't want political allies, but rather political subjects... If you're actually open t…

Why would a male even bother to - take HRT long enough to pass, which is in months if not years - destroy their libido - sterilize himself - gain weight - reduce the size of his penis - experience near constant pain on his penis due to atrophy - have his testicles shrink - have erectile dysfunction - experience all that bullying - risk getting disowned by family - lose friendships so that he can commit an __opportuni…

None of this is required for a male to claim to have a so-called 'female gender identity' and be admitted to female-only spaces.

Just look at what is happening with prisons in jurisdictions where they have prioritized claims of 'gender identity' over sex. Women have been sexually assaulted, raped and even impregnated by such males. It's horrifying.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#59

Post by rbanffy » Wed, Mar 08, 2023, 8:15 AM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #55

rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.

It's all theater. Most of Florida's laws are getting struck down in the federal courts but that's not the point - the point is for Desantis to score political points in his bid for the 2024 presidential run. All that matters is he took the appropriate steps to "own" the libs. That's what passes for Republican governance these days. I'm old enough to remember when TV cameras were called idiot magnets. Now the idiots a…

Every law like this drags the Overton window further to the right by normalising the exclusionary discourse. The goal is not to get them passed at first try, but, if nothing is done, they will get passed at some point.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#60

Post by fzeroracer » Wed, Mar 08, 2023, 8:07 PM UTC

locustous wrote: post #45

locopati wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Maybe for some kids, it's an experiment and they're really cis, but for many (because honestly, socially transitioning is not exactly easy in many places), it is a life saving first step in understanding themselves and establishing evidence for medical profess…

> Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Local story... Boy who claims to be female and goes into the girls locker room to watch them change. He doesn't actually change or participate. Just a spectator. The girls try to hide from him. It's pretty clear by the details that he's a peeping tom just th…

It's interesting that you choose to make up a story without any anecdotes of someone claiming to be trans to harass women, versus the states and districts passing 'gender inspection' bills legalizing harassment by people that have no right to know/care. Or the known incidents [1] of men following cisgender women into the bathroom thinking they're trans or openly harassing them.

[1] https://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-haras...