Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 60 posts

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#41

Post by smeej »

mcphage wrote: post #35
smeej wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That regret rate stat is often-touted, but extremely out of date. It may have been accurate back when 0.3% of people, most of them adults, were the sample set of "people who had undergone gender-affirming medical treatment," but now approximately ten percent of children, a 30x increase, are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics. It would be great if the reality w…

> are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics. It's hard to have regret statistics for identifying as transgender, because if you regret identifying as transgender, you just... stop. Regret statistics are irrelevant, because it's not a decision with long term consequences.

I'm not talking about "desisters," people who socially transitioned but never took medical action. I'm talking about people who used cross-sex hormones and surgery to alter their bodies. Having body parts added or removed absolutely has long-term consequences.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#42

Post by smeej »

xracy wrote: post #34
smeej wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That regret rate stat is often-touted, but extremely out of date. It may have been accurate back when 0.3% of people, most of them adults, were the sample set of "people who had undergone gender-affirming medical treatment," but now approximately ten percent of children, a 30x increase, are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics. It would be great if the reality w…

[Citation Needed]

The "0.3-3.8% regret" statistic comes from this summary of the literature, which does not have sources before 2017: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equali...

The claim that this is current despite the massive uptick in children identifying as trans (again, a 30x increase), needs a current citation.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#44

Post by mcphage »

smeej wrote: post #41
mcphage wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> are identifying as some type of transgender, and we simply do not have current regret statistics. It's hard to have regret statistics for identifying as transgender, because if you regret identifying as transgender, you just... stop. Regret statistics are irrelevant, because it's not a decision with long term consequences.

I'm not talking about "desisters," people who socially transitioned but never took medical action. I'm talking about people who used cross-sex hormones and surgery to alter their bodies. Having body parts added or removed absolutely has long-term consequences.

> I'm talking about people who used cross-sex hormones and surgery to alter their bodies.

Then why on Earth did you cite the statistic of “10% of children”… 10% of children have not used cross-sex hormones or surgery to alter their body.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#45

Post by locustous »

locopati wrote: post #21
bsaul wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely…

Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Maybe for some kids, it's an experiment and they're really cis, but for many (because honestly, socially transitioning is not exactly easy in many places), it is a life saving first step in understanding themselves and establishing evidence for medical profess…

> Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness.

Local story... Boy who claims to be female and goes into the girls locker room to watch them change. He doesn't actually change or participate. Just a spectator. The girls try to hide from him. It's pretty clear by the details that he's a peeping tom just there to ogle the girls. One of the girls speaks up about how uncomfortable he has made life and many girls no longer want to change their clothes for gym, even asking for private spaces but this girl is ostracized and vilified by the local media for not being supportive.

It's pretty amazing how we went from being so protective of these spaces. Particularly from sexual predators. To one where we openly allow predatory behavior and tell the reporter of the incident that she is the bad one. Deny them privacy and security.

Numerous reports of trans males dominating girls sports, and from information that is the primary reason for the 'change'.

All these stories of particularly men going trans for transparently selfish reasons of advantage do not help the cause among people who really care about their daughters well being.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#46

Post by sundaeofshock »

locustous wrote: post #45
locopati wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Maybe for some kids, it's an experiment and they're really cis, but for many (because honestly, socially transitioning is not exactly easy in many places), it is a life saving first step in understanding themselves and establishing evidence for medical profess…

> Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Local story... Boy who claims to be female and goes into the girls locker room to watch them change. He doesn't actually change or participate. Just a spectator. The girls try to hide from him. It's pretty clear by the details that he's a peeping tom just th…

Do you have a source for this? Otherwise I’m calling bullshit.

This is dangerous, eliminationist, anti-trans rhetoric that should not be tolerated on HN (or any other forum).

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#47

Post by dighp »

locustous wrote: post #45
locopati wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Maybe for some kids, it's an experiment and they're really cis, but for many (because honestly, socially transitioning is not exactly easy in many places), it is a life saving first step in understanding themselves and establishing evidence for medical profess…

> Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Local story... Boy who claims to be female and goes into the girls locker room to watch them change. He doesn't actually change or participate. Just a spectator. The girls try to hide from him. It's pretty clear by the details that he's a peeping tom just th…

Exactly this. It should be a massive red flag that any of these males want to violate the boundaries of women and girls in the first place, knowing fine well that they are not welcome in what are supposed to be female-only spaces. Instead, it's seen as evidence that they should be permitted to do so.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#48

Post by locustous »

sundaeofshock wrote: post #46
locustous wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's the thing, if the right actually was honest, they would be supportive of social transitioning, because that is how a kid can figure out their transness. Local story... Boy who claims to be female and goes into the girls locker room to watch them change. He doesn't actually change or participate. Just a spectator. The girls try to hide from him. It's pretty clear by the details that he's a peeping tom just th…

Do you have a source for this? Otherwise I’m calling bullshit. This is dangerous, eliminationist, anti-trans rhetoric that should not be tolerated on HN (or any other forum).

Because a male could never actually pretend to be trans for selfish reasons?

Instead of a mutually beneficial compromise like give everyone private individual dressing spaces and listening to potential victims of trans abuse in gendered spaces. You go full offensive mode on me for even suggesting the possibility.

It seems that you don't want political allies, but rather political subjects...

If you're actually open to seeing the issue there are plenty of stories you can search up on this topic. What I mention is hardly unique, I see them with some frequency.

Ignoring these concerns will just cement the political divide and harden political opponents who want to protect female gendered spaces and youth from predators.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#49

Post by xracy »

smeej wrote: post #42
xracy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Citation Needed]

The "0.3-3.8% regret" statistic comes from this summary of the literature, which does not have sources before 2017: https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equali... The claim that this is current despite the massive uptick in children identifying as trans (again, a 30x increase), needs a current citation.

I was asking for citations for your claims. That literature seems pretty solid, given you shared a literal collation of all of it.

Importantly, increased number of children identifying as trans Does Not Mean "increased number of children who would not otherwise have identified as trans". It just means our culture is getting more accepting of trans kids, so they're not relegated to being outcasts in all cases. So your claim that the year studies were published matters, is just wrong on the face of it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8099405/ > There are many, many places kids can get needed "referrals" from one visit without their parents' knowledge or consent.

That's the citation I want from you.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#50

Post by rbanffy »

locustous wrote: post #48
sundaeofshock wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this? Otherwise I’m calling bullshit. This is dangerous, eliminationist, anti-trans rhetoric that should not be tolerated on HN (or any other forum).

Because a male could never actually pretend to be trans for selfish reasons? Instead of a mutually beneficial compromise like give everyone private individual dressing spaces and listening to potential victims of trans abuse in gendered spaces. You go full offensive mode on me for even suggesting the possibility. It seems that you don't want political allies, but rather political subjects... If you're actually open t…

> Because a male could never actually pretend to be trans for selfish reasons?

I've seen a number of perverts in my life, but this one would be on a different level. The amount of bullying that boy would receive from other boys would hardly be compensated by him being able to go into the girl's locker when the whole content of the internet porn is readily available.

> What I mention is hardly unique, I see them with some frequency.

From reputable news sources?

Post reply on HN