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Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

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Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#51

Post by RivieraKid »

alfor wrote: post #23

I wouldn’t be surprised that UAW be behind that. It’s a very powerful organisation having a lot of political power. They see Tesla as a threat to their system as Tesla is the only in the US not part of it and they are doing better than all the other car companies. I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a…

Unions are almost always good for employees, at least in theory (assuming the union is making good decisions). More market power is better than less market power.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#52

Post by Robotbeat »

vidarh wrote: post #16
elif wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to say everyone that got let go is a low performer or has poor personal skills. I've seen plenty of good employees fired for bad or no reason. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

If a union protects people who are not doing their job from being made to do it, that is an argument for chosing a different union not against unions in general.

In the US, you don’t really have the luxury of picking a different union. This is one reason unions suck in the US.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#53

Post by andsoitis »

mc32 wrote: post #44
moolcool wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are doing better than all the other car companies By which metric? Their market cap is astronomical, but they, to be frank, don't actually make a lot of cars. Not to mention that virtually every product release is delayed ad nauseum, FSD from Tesla is both a pipe dream and a liability nightmare, and other manufacturers, both foreign and domestic, are rapidly catching up with appealing EVs.

Profit per electric car[1]. They beat all competitors by a very large margin. Heh, it looks like people disagree that this is a valid metric parent was asking for or disagree that the data is valid. Oh, goodness. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

soecifically, tesla profitability per vehicle is 8 times that of toyota (as of Nov 2022).

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#55

Post by moolcool »

mc32 wrote: post #44
moolcool wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are doing better than all the other car companies By which metric? Their market cap is astronomical, but they, to be frank, don't actually make a lot of cars. Not to mention that virtually every product release is delayed ad nauseum, FSD from Tesla is both a pipe dream and a liability nightmare, and other manufacturers, both foreign and domestic, are rapidly catching up with appealing EVs.

Profit per electric car[1]. They beat all competitors by a very large margin. Heh, it looks like people disagree that this is a valid metric parent was asking for or disagree that the data is valid. Oh, goodness. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

I suspect that's largely because they have massive sunk costs since they've been doing it for longer than anyone else. I sincerely don't think you can count on that lasting. Especially since some models are getting up in the years, and their shoddy build quality is becoming increasingly evident to consumers.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#57

Post by leereeves »

hef19898 wrote: post #42
leereeves wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen the margins on businesses old enough to be owned by heirs? They're only "siphoning off" a few percent. Edit: I misunderstood. I thought the complaint was that the heirs were taking a lot of created wealth from each worker. Not simply that they were wealthy.

Those heirs are the richest people in Europe, owning everything from VW and Porsche to BMW and a bunch of other household names. And those few percent are coming off from quite huge figures...

Yeah, the lack of new businesses is a big problem in Europe. Regulations and taxation kill them or drive them out of Europe.

But I was speaking from a US perspective (since I'm from the US and this story is about the US), and our biggest, most profitable businesses are mostly under fifty years old, not over.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#58

Post by mc32 »

andsoitis wrote: post #53
mc32 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit per electric car[1]. They beat all competitors by a very large margin. Heh, it looks like people disagree that this is a valid metric parent was asking for or disagree that the data is valid. Oh, goodness. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

soecifically, tesla profitability per vehicle is 8 times that of toyota (as of Nov 2022).

And Toyota places second, and all others have worse numbers. And Ford a strong contender loses money per electric vehicle sold.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#59

Post by quadrifoliate »

mc32 wrote: post #47
quadrifoliate wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know someone who saved companies from bankruptcy, usually heavy industries. When he get hired he install security cameras and other measures and after a few week usually find out that a lot of people are constantly stealing valuable materials from the company. It’s always people in the union with some friends that work on the floor. It always strikes me how unions in the US are subject to these kinds of casual st…

The structure of unions is such that it facilitates and encourages seniority as well as corruption including ties to the mob. It's no accident that unions are targets of corruption by the feds for various forms of malfeasance.

The exact same things could be said about companies themselves.

"The structure of companies is such that it facilitates and encourages seniority as well as corruption including ties to the mob. It's no accident that companies are targets of corruption by the feds [1] for various forms of malfeasance."

You're basically saying that crime exists among groups of people where there is a power differential. I mean, sure? I still don't understand [2] why unions are so specifically a target of it as compared to, say, insider traders. You don't typically see people saying we should just not have an executive board because some have been caught insider trading -- that would be absurd!

[1] https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/white-collar-crime

[2] I suspect though, that it has something to do with the typical judgements of "blue-collar" crime as being more heinous than "white-collar" crime.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#60

Post by [deleted] »

andsoitis wrote: post #53
mc32 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit per electric car[1]. They beat all competitors by a very large margin. Heh, it looks like people disagree that this is a valid metric parent was asking for or disagree that the data is valid. Oh, goodness. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

soecifically, tesla profitability per vehicle is 8 times that of toyota (as of Nov 2022).

[deleted]
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