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Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

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Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#51

Post by simplotek »

ijustcantevenw wrote: post #47
simplotek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really, who cares? Apparently, both companies cared. Cared deeply. Hence the coordinated firing. > If they're getting their job done, who are you to tell another man what he can do with his body? Quite literally, employment contracts stipulate Basic requirements such as working hours and availability. If an employee says he's pulling 40h/week but he's actually pulling around 20h/week, if that, then the question of…

> Apparently, both companies cared. Cared deeply. Hence the coordinated firing. Seems like collusion, wage suppression, interference with business and interference with employment. I hope this guy sues the crap out of OP's company. > If an employee says he's pulling 40h/week but he's actually pulling around 20h/week, if that, then the question of fraud is up. If an employee is getting 40 hours of work done per week,…

> Seems like collusion (...)

It's as much collusion as it would be if two victims of fraud agreed to go together to the police to press charges.

> If an employee is getting 40 hours of work done per week, then I don't see the problem.

You're not.

> Because it's none of their business.

What they put in the contract is unequivocally their business, don't you think?

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#52

Post by mirekrusin »

mirekrusin wrote: post #37
NullPrefix wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some CEOs manage multiple companies and their work hours can add up to 80 per week

Are they hiding this fact? Do you think their compensation is unrelated to how many other jobs they're performing at the same time?

Just to add to it, looking from time perspective you feel like a fool, there were many occasions in span of several months when SU/meeting couldn't be attended; already constrainted due to timezone difference, you'd think he'd make an effort to at least be available during short overlap hours, but couldn't because:

- had to pick up mom from airport

- had doctor's appointment

- electricity was cut off the building

- mom is out of medicines

- traveling back to my hometown

- still at airport going back home

- checkup with my mom

- at hospital

- my mom is getting gallstones removed (she was fine after operation!)

- have dental appointment

- i have follow up checkup

- have problems peeing for last days, decided to check at it at hospital

- wasn't able to check in yesterday sorry

- not feeling good today

- can't attend

- driving back from pharmacy

- had some headache this morning

- can't join accompanying my mom for her monthly checkup

- can't attend bought some meds for mom and got stuck in traffic going home

- power interruption in my area

- picking up my sister at the airport

- had fever

- still not feeling well hopefully my tonsils will heal tomorrow

- internet today is on/off in my area maybe due to weather

- my internet is off restarting my router

- i'm on m1

- dropping my brother at airport

- having connection issues

- there was line cut off near our area

- having issues due to upgrade in our area

- currently travelling to my province

- heavy traffic on friday

- can't join will be driving my brother to the airport and there can be traffic

- having some connection issues atm

- sorry can't attend today

- having some connection issues

- having issues connecting

- may be late sorry (not joining)

...

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#53

Post by mirekrusin »

ijustcantevenw wrote: post #42
mirekrusin wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is in hiding the fact and being transparent/disclosing it. Are you seriously saying you think it's fine to not disclose one or more other full time jobs you're doing at the same time while working remotely as developer?

When I'm not working, sometimes I busk on the street corner. Should I disclose that?

If you're doing it every workday full time during the time that you're suppose to work - yes, you should.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#54

Post by ijustcantevenw »

simplotek wrote: post #50
ijustcantevenw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'm not working, sometimes I busk on the street corner. Should I disclose that?

If you expect to busk on the street corner during company time, what do you think?

What is company time when you're +8 hours from an employer, and you complete your work?

And yes, I do busk in lieu of taking lunch sometimes.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#55

Post by ijustcantevenw »

simplotek wrote: post #51
ijustcantevenw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apparently, both companies cared. Cared deeply. Hence the coordinated firing. Seems like collusion, wage suppression, interference with business and interference with employment. I hope this guy sues the crap out of OP's company. > If an employee says he's pulling 40h/week but he's actually pulling around 20h/week, if that, then the question of fraud is up. If an employee is getting 40 hours of work done per week,…

> Seems like collusion (...) It's as much collusion as it would be if two victims of fraud agreed to go together to the police to press charges. > If an employee is getting 40 hours of work done per week, then I don't see the problem. You're not. > Because it's none of their business. What they put in the contract is unequivocally their business, don't you think?

> You're not.

I'm the most productive engineer on both of my teams and have been for the 4 years I've been working at both companies. I don't tell them. Nor do I tell them about my sexual proclivities, my rental income, my residuals on several albums I produced nor my stock, crypto and portfolio income. I manage all of that a little bit of "company time", whatever that means.

> What they put in the contract is unequivocally their business, don't you think?

No. We are forced to sign a ton of unfair contracts just for the privilege of working our asses off to make other people rich.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#56

Post by mirekrusin »

ijustcantevenw wrote: post #41

> How do you work with people without being an asshole to ensure they also play fair? Too late. > * recently we dismissed developer after discovering he was working (also full time) at another company (we coordinated termination on both sides - I'm not even sure if it made him without work or just removed 2 out of N jobs) You should expect a lawsuit for this. If you give me his contact, I know a few good lawyers. Rea…

No, he was not doing job well at all, was on the way out really when we found out; after maybe a month or two after staring missing majority of meetings due to long list of random personal issues started paired with extremely low output.

Working full time means working full time, not fraction of a time maybe while I also work for N other companies.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#57

Post by mirekrusin »

ijustcantevenw wrote: post #47
simplotek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really, who cares? Apparently, both companies cared. Cared deeply. Hence the coordinated firing. > If they're getting their job done, who are you to tell another man what he can do with his body? Quite literally, employment contracts stipulate Basic requirements such as working hours and availability. If an employee says he's pulling 40h/week but he's actually pulling around 20h/week, if that, then the question of…

> Apparently, both companies cared. Cared deeply. Hence the coordinated firing. Seems like collusion, wage suppression, interference with business and interference with employment. I hope this guy sues the crap out of OP's company. > If an employee says he's pulling 40h/week but he's actually pulling around 20h/week, if that, then the question of fraud is up. If an employee is getting 40 hours of work done per week,…

In this case it evolved to more like 0-3h max per week.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#58

Post by ryandrake »

mirekrusin wrote: post #34
ryandrake wrote: post #18

I agree all those other things are annoying/fraudulent, but... > recently we dismissed developer after discovering he was working (also full time) at another company (we coordinated termination on both sides - I'm not even sure if it made him without work or just removed 2 out of N jobs) I don't think I've ever heard a reasonable objection to this, assuming 1. the person's second job is not with a competitor, 2. they…

You can't have 2 full time jobs at the same time and be for real. You can say you'd like to perform work for two different companies and negotiate your working hours and conditions with both.

I don't personally have a dog in this race because I'm happy working a single job, but I think you might be making assumptions that don't necessarily apply to all full-time jobs.

If at your company, "duration of time someone's butt is in their seat" is a meaningful business measurement, then by all means, insist your employees spend the required amount of time in their chair. Most full-time jobs I've had did not specify hours with such rigidity, and the best ones were very flexible about other things we need to do during the day (even, gasp, during business hours). Your business might not be willing to provide such flexibility. Definitely ask candidates about side projects and other jobs during the interview process and make your policy clear so they know it's important. Disclosure goes both ways.

I would find it distasteful if I got fired (and then the firer reached out to another, unrelated party to continue the damage), over something that was glossed over (or never asked about) during the interview, and simply written somewhere on page 13 of the employment agreement.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#59

Post by mirekrusin »

giantg2 wrote: post #19

"we coordinated termination on both sides" It's one thing to ask if they currently work there and provide the same info, but coordinating to terminate them from both companies seems like an antitrust issue.

You reach another company to try to understand what is happening and you discover whole thing rides on lies on both sides.

Re: Ask HN: Fake Job Candidates?

#60

Post by JonChesterfield »

brianwawok wrote: post #33
JonChesterfield wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I like US working hours and working remotely and live in Europe.

So as a European you have a right to all American jobs? I just want to make sure that is what you are after. Last time I checked as an American I did not have a right to all German or England jobs..

Weird way to express it. I work for a US company today, but so do lots of people from other countries. That doesn't mean I'm depriving an American of an opportunity.

Remote jobs that specify a country always seem to be US. Everywhere else has a timezone range where you're expected to work. So if as an American you'd like to work in remote GMT+/-3, you go for it.

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