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My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

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Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#51

Post by wkat4242 »

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #36
CharlieDigital wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially w…

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It's actually quite ergonomic if you have the laptop in your lap. Using the touchpad is more awkward. This is basically what I use the touchscreen on my Thinkpad for.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#52

Post by eviks »

acdha wrote: post #48
goosedragons wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common is it though? This was my beef with Apple too, they add security to the point it was actively getting in my way. I'm sure my house would be more secure if I auto-locked every room and they all had seperate keys but it would also be incredibly annoying. I don't use a Mac anymore but does Apple also prompt you for plugging in say a Magic Mouse or Keyboard for pairing?

They definitely do prompt, because it’s not uncommon. There’s an entire cottage industry selling tools: https://shop.hak5.org/products/usb-rubber-ducky More importantly, it puts you one hack away from arbitrary code execution. That device is a dedicated testing tool but there are tons of USB devices which have vulnerable firmware, and the OS vendor can’t know whether you’d pick up a USB key you find on the ground, bu…

But how would the prompt help if the user plugging the off-the-ground USB key would just click yes?

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#53

Post by goosedragons »

acdha wrote: post #48
goosedragons wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common is it though? This was my beef with Apple too, they add security to the point it was actively getting in my way. I'm sure my house would be more secure if I auto-locked every room and they all had seperate keys but it would also be incredibly annoying. I don't use a Mac anymore but does Apple also prompt you for plugging in say a Magic Mouse or Keyboard for pairing?

They definitely do prompt, because it’s not uncommon. There’s an entire cottage industry selling tools: https://shop.hak5.org/products/usb-rubber-ducky More importantly, it puts you one hack away from arbitrary code execution. That device is a dedicated testing tool but there are tons of USB devices which have vulnerable firmware, and the OS vendor can’t know whether you’d pick up a USB key you find on the ground, bu…

I'm aware the tools exist but how actively exploited is it? Prompting you doesn't help in scenarios like buying a compromised gadget off Craiglist or a finding a USB key on the ground. The user is going to accept the prompt anyways to use it to begin with.

Does it prompt you again if the USB devices firmware changes even while it's constantly plugged in?

The only scenario I can see this being helpful is if someone is able to sneak an extra USB device or compromised cable onto your dock/desktop without you noticing but also can't unlock the computer to click OK. I'd imagine for the vast majority of people, even those that leave their computer at work 100% of the time that this is something they'll never encounter except maybe as a prank where the guy in accounting plugs in an extra mouse to mess with you. Perhaps it's worth the option but should it be the default? Even then I'd imagine a lot of people blindly clicking OK anyways...

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#54

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

flohofwoe wrote: post #43
sergiomattei wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leaves laptop on desk, goes to bathroom. > Bad actor plugs in device. Pwned. This is why asking to allow works as a security measure.

In that case the machine would be locked and no new USB connections should be accepted in locked state? And if the computer isn't locked during your bathroom break, the "bad actor" can do whatever he wants anyway, including clicking the Ok button after inserting the USB device. But in general, yeah, an USB popup is the least of Ventura's problems (the much bigger problem is the slow but steady "iOS-ification" of macO…

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Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#55

Post by vulcan01 »

Nullabillity wrote: post #29
rattray wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the first time for each monitor, I believe. It's really fine.

... but how do you click allow when it's prompting for whether to allow your keyboard and mouse?

If you're on a laptop model, you use the laptop's keyboard or mouse. I believe that for desktop models, if there is a keyboard or mouse plugged in at startup, it does not prompt.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#56

Post by satvikpendem »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #45
barnabee wrote: post #32

Not sure about “worst” but I really hate that they’ve made the menu bar taller than the notch on the MacBook Pro— why on Earth would you do that?! I also don’t love the new settings app or the trend toward highly graphical, touchscreen style bundled apps, but I can ignore most of them so it’s not a huge deal.

On that note... why do the MacBooks even have a notch considering: A) FaceID is tiny now, look at the iPhone 14, and B) No Mac has FaceID anyway. What's in there apart from a tiny camera and light sensor? There's no way those two things can take up that much space.

Seems to be for future face ID. Apple uses the same chassis for years as the manufacturing cost of changing out the chassis every year is unnecessary, especially with Tim Cook's operational background.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#57

Post by eviks »

detaro wrote: post #17
RedShift1 wrote: post #12

To me the idea of having to allow devices to connect is completely wrong. I have already undertaken a physical action to connect a device, why would I suddenly change my mind afterwards? The physical act itself IS the permission. What does it help when the OS asks you "are you sure"?

see the links acdha posted for what it's supposed to protect against - devices that are not the devices you think they are.

I see the links. They explain nothing - the user will just accept this useless prompt and will not notice the unnoticeable "when you least expected it, typed in a malicious payload right under your nose, ideally quickly enough for you to not even notice."

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#58

Post by acdha »

prng2021 wrote: post #18
RedShift1 wrote: post #12

To me the idea of having to allow devices to connect is completely wrong. I have already undertaken a physical action to connect a device, why would I suddenly change my mind afterwards? The physical act itself IS the permission. What does it help when the OS asks you "are you sure"?

Guessing here but maybe it's supposed to be a security measure. What if you're in an office or public space and you have a hub or dock connected. A malicious actor could plug in an unknown device while you step away from the machine. I also have Logitech peripherals that connect wirelessly to a USB receiver. I wouldn't want my receiver and machine accepting a connection from an unknown device.

Also the device you plugged in might not be what you thought it was: not just in the “why did this weird dude in the parking garage give me a free USB key?” sense but because these devices have firmware which can be attacked so it could be something like a shared device which was compromised by a person you trust & like 99.99% of people your threat model didn’t extend to not letting them charge their phone / camera / e-reader / etc. on your laptop.

Obviously the better solutions here will involve things line better authentication at the protocol level but the compatibility challenge is enormous with decades of USB showing up everywhere.

Re: My Controversial Opinion: Ventura Is Apple’s Worst macOS Yet

#59

Post by satvikpendem »

BuckyBeaver wrote: post #36
CharlieDigital wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has a Surface laptop and there are a lot of use cases where it's very natural to use touch. Scrolling when reading long documents is one. Looking at maps (e.g Google Maps) is another. Basically anything that has a lot of scrolling, panning, and zooming. Drawing annotations is another. For example Slack screen share, whiteboard apps, and so on. Of course there is the touchpad, but in these cases - especially w…

[flagged]

It doesn't seem like you've actually tried it, and just because others have and like it doesn't make them "infants" who "continue whining."
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