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Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

theguardian.com

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Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#51

Post by chironjit »

pwdisswordfish0 wrote: post #29
Tiktaalik wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally the barrier to using public transit is not price, but rather deficiencies in the network, so the best way to increase transit use is to invest money in expanding the network or improving frequency and consistency of transit. This is definitely the case in North America, but still likely the case in Germany despite Germany having a much more robust transit system.

Yeah no, it’s definitely the price and the hassle of getting a ticket. I probably live in the best developed area in Germany, public transit wise. I could be in the next big city center in 10 minutes by train, but without the €9 ticket I frequently took the car (which I have to have for rural reasons), because apparently rather than paying €12.40 I preferred driving 30 minutes, finding and paying for parking, and not…

Upvoting and confirming your experience. Lots of commenters here sound like they haven't used the network.

I've only been here for a month and see why the 9 euro is so popular.

I've already experienced everything you mentioned in my short stay here

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#52

Post by KptMarchewa »

jokoon wrote: post #43
insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Because it takes a long time to build a public transit infrastructure, and cars made it unprofitable. Electric bikes make public transit much better. An important thing to understand, is that public transit cannot be faster or as fast as cars. People need to change home. That's why sobriety is important to talk about. You can't fight climate change without some sacrifices. It often seems like most consumers can't acc…

>An important thing to understand, is that public transit cannot be faster or as fast as cars. People need to change home.

In cities of significant density metro very much is faster. Even some trams are faster in rush hours.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#53

Post by asdajksah2123 »

sazz wrote: post #45

I think this calculation is complete nonsense and pure propaganda to support political movement. Many people have bought tickets and made trips that they would never have made at normal prices. The article quotes someone who travels from Bavaria to Rostock simply because it is cheap. Not because he has to. Here, CO2 is deliberately wasted out of boredom or pleasure, and then people pat themselves on the back for bein…

The marginal GHG cost of the extra trip is almost 0.

In fact, if they were alternatively sitting at home running air conditioning the overall CO2 output would probably have reduced by them sitting in the train for those hours instead.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#54

Post by unmole »

chironjit wrote: post #50
unmole wrote: post #46

Yeah, no: https://www.ft.com/content/7a9973cd-ea91-42a9-a79f-4a8c5bf93... > Feld said it was clear more people were using public transport “but it was almost exclusively additional demand — there was no shift in traffic from road to rail”. > “So environmental goals were not achieved,” he said.

It's also correct to read Feld's statement and view it as a net positive. From what I've seen, this additional demand is a net positive for the economy and environment. Most trains in general are already scheduled. There is close to zero marginal cost for an additional person to take the train. There are additional emissions when more schedules are added, and this has almost certainly been the case in some of the mor…

> From what I've seen, this additional demand is a net positive for the economy and environment.

Economy yes. But how is it a positive for the environment? > Most trains in general are already scheduled. There is close to zero marginal cost for an additional person to take the train.

That's a good point but that's true for flights too.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#55

Post by pjmlp »

chironjit wrote: post #51
pwdisswordfish0 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no, it’s definitely the price and the hassle of getting a ticket. I probably live in the best developed area in Germany, public transit wise. I could be in the next big city center in 10 minutes by train, but without the €9 ticket I frequently took the car (which I have to have for rural reasons), because apparently rather than paying €12.40 I preferred driving 30 minutes, finding and paying for parking, and not…

Upvoting and confirming your experience. Lots of commenters here sound like they haven't used the network. I've only been here for a month and see why the 9 euro is so popular. I've already experienced everything you mentioned in my short stay here

I have used the network plenty of times during the last 20 years.

Some routes that take me 30 minutes with the car, go up for 1h 30m or even 2h if I am unlucky, due to the amount of times I have to change public transport and waiting between connections.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#56

Post by pjmlp »

netsharc wrote: post #20
ellareen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually did borrow my parents car because the commute got so bad. I commute from Aachen to Cologne. After 2 trips there and back which would usually take me about 4 hours total, I had accumulated over 8 hours of total travel time and kinda had enough. Was very glad i was able to WFH.

Huh, why did the 9 Euro ticket double your travel time? Did the trains get slower? Did they cancel the fast trains? Were the trains so full you had to wait 2 hours to find space in one?

They actually did, they got so full that they started to take ages in each single station, given the amount of passagers getting on/off.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#57

Post by insane_dreamer »

jokoon wrote: post #43
insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Because it takes a long time to build a public transit infrastructure, and cars made it unprofitable. Electric bikes make public transit much better. An important thing to understand, is that public transit cannot be faster or as fast as cars. People need to change home. That's why sobriety is important to talk about. You can't fight climate change without some sacrifices. It often seems like most consumers can't acc…

in my experience, subways are faster than cars in many cities; sometimes trams too to a lesser extent since they're slower and hit the red lights, or buses with dedicated lines (like the Metrobus in Mexico City)

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#58

Post by junon »

Akronymus wrote: post #4
junon wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to downvote this, but unfortunately it's true. Living here, people have lost hope that the government will improve anything.

But clearly, accelerating the shutdown of nuclear is the best way to combat climate change.

Not sure why you're attacking me, I don't agree with Germany's greater stance on nuclear. But I don't see how that's of relevance here.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#59

Post by panick21_ »

throw827474737 wrote: post #6
Akronymus wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But clearly, accelerating the shutdown of nuclear is the best way to combat climate change.

Not everything needs to be "climate" now as we ignored it anyway for too long..lol. It is also about not using finite resources, waste, risk, economics.. lately looking at France's and China's heat waves, didn't we all learn that all our coal/gas and first of these nuclear plants will fail more and more and not be a reliable power source during increasing heat and drought waves and the near future? And then there it…

Wow, no what we learn is that after 60 years of dumb usage of nuclear we need to finally fucking evolve and build air cooled nuclear. Sadly most projects that could do that get killed in the political battle.

There is nothing inherent in nuclear that is bad in heat. In fact, air cooled nuclear, is perfectly fine in the hottest desert and coolest tundra.

> conflucts & war will now also only increase, that is for sure.

That is against 50 years of trend, and despite Ukraine, it not actually flipping the trend.

> Worst of all I cannot get rid of the feeling that everybody shouting "nuclear now" was denying or at least ignoring clinate change for the last 30 years..

That is a totally uniformed opinion. Lots and lots of people have been wanting nuclear for a long time.

France as an example of a green grid has been held up as an example by many technology people.

The simple problem is that those people didn't really have a political home, so they had little relevance.

> Be happy in your nuclear focused states and fantasies but leave this at rest here at least ..

Nuclear has actually managed to make grids green. Like actual large industrial countries, and did it 40 years before anybody came even close with wind/solar.

You should worship at the feet of nuclear given how much CO2 was not produced because of nuclear for the last 40 years.

And had it everybody had embraced nuclear like we wouldn't have the problem anymore.

The reality is the environmentalist with their obsession with natural energy (whatever sudo-scientific nonsense that is) have been holding back the flight against climate change almost as much as the fossil fuel lobby.

For 40 years the environmentalist failed to produce a solution for green grids and dreamed about solar and wind. Sure over the last 20 years that has started to work. But we would be done with this by now had the environmentalist community embraced nuclear.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#60

Post by ipaddr »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #38
ipaddr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes raise in rural areas to pay for these systems.

Roads are vastly more expensive than transit per trip. If having the busses and trains full avoids yet another widening then taxes go down, and the rural + urban areas stop subsidizing the suburbs.

The one time cost of widening roads go down but the additional transit line costs which are yearly outweigh those costs and continue.
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