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Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

theguardian.com

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Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#11

Post by ellareen »

rurban wrote: post #10
lgrapenthin wrote: post #5

Wrong. It flooded the network with vacationers who normally could not afford travelling at all, while workers had to resort to their cars again to reach their jobs in time. Counting everyone who "would not have travelled by train", meaning "likely not at all" as saved emission is not very convincing.

I know nobody who had to switch to their car to come to work in time. On the hand, most coworkers tried the bus in the morning, or switched to bycicles, with the occasional bus trip when it rained. It was a huge success, people flooded the trains.

I actually did borrow my parents car because the commute got so bad. I commute from Aachen to Cologne. After 2 trips there and back which would usually take me about 4 hours total, I had accumulated over 8 hours of total travel time and kinda had enough. Was very glad i was able to WFH.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#13

Post by Tiktaalik »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Generally the barrier to using public transit is not price, but rather deficiencies in the network, so the best way to increase transit use is to invest money in expanding the network or improving frequency and consistency of transit.

This is definitely the case in North America, but still likely the case in Germany despite Germany having a much more robust transit system.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#14

Post by mytailorisrich »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Because it's expensive but not necessarily effective.

It also only benefits city-dwellers (see political impact of this by looking at, for instance, the yellow vest protests in France).

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#15

Post by [deleted] »

hedora wrote: post #7
lgrapenthin wrote: post #5

Wrong. It flooded the network with vacationers who normally could not afford travelling at all, while workers had to resort to their cars again to reach their jobs in time. Counting everyone who "would not have travelled by train", meaning "likely not at all" as saved emission is not very convincing.

According to the article, the study accounts for this. Do you have some evidence that it does not?

[deleted]

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#16

Post by kioleanu »

junon wrote: post #3
dunefox wrote: post #2

Good thing it won't be continued then, because if there's one thing Germany hates it's improvements.

I want to downvote this, but unfortunately it's true. Living here, people have lost hope that the government will improve anything.

As an insider point of view, although it may not seem so, I am optimistic we’ll see a lot of changes in the near future.

The main reason is that there were many measures taken to make the government be a desirable employer and I am seeing many capable people entering the public service

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#17

Post by iggldiggl »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #13
insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Generally the barrier to using public transit is not price, but rather deficiencies in the network, so the best way to increase transit use is to invest money in expanding the network or improving frequency and consistency of transit. This is definitely the case in North America, but still likely the case in Germany despite Germany having a much more robust transit system.

Only relatively recently some smaller scale experiments in that direction were done in a few German cities, and service improvements were indeed found more effective in gaining additional passengers.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#18

Post by valenterry »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

There's pros and cons.

On the con side:

- When people get something for free, they often don't value it as much and treat it worse. E.g. more pollution.

- public transportation being free also means that it will be used even in cases where it is both economically and ecologically a suboptimal solution. This is a problem because more usage means higher costs. E.g. someone now might take a bus instead of cycling.

- Less competition. This point is tricky, but essentially, other solutions such as private long-distance busses (which have a comparibly good ecological footprint) might go out of business. In general, market might develop suboptimal.

There are a lot of good points too, which makes it a difficult decision. But since you asked, those can be named as reasons I suppose.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#19

Post by valenterry »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #14
insane_dreamer wrote: post #12

Why not make public transportation free as part of the government's investment in combatting climate change (and lots of other benefits)

Because it's expensive but not necessarily effective. It also only benefits city-dwellers (see political impact of this by looking at, for instance, the yellow vest protests in France).

I don't think it only benefits city-dwellers. Sure, on the countryside the service is much worse, but on the other hand, the money spent per person might even be higher in the countryside.

Re: Germany’s €9 train tickets scheme ‘saved 1.8m tons of CO2 emissions’

#20

Post by netsharc »

ellareen wrote: post #11
rurban wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nobody who had to switch to their car to come to work in time. On the hand, most coworkers tried the bus in the morning, or switched to bycicles, with the occasional bus trip when it rained. It was a huge success, people flooded the trains.

I actually did borrow my parents car because the commute got so bad. I commute from Aachen to Cologne. After 2 trips there and back which would usually take me about 4 hours total, I had accumulated over 8 hours of total travel time and kinda had enough. Was very glad i was able to WFH.

Huh, why did the 9 Euro ticket double your travel time? Did the trains get slower? Did they cancel the fast trains? Were the trains so full you had to wait 2 hours to find space in one?
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