Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems so wild that part of the US government was so happy to start wars in irrelevant countries despite the fact that it appears pretty obvious the real perpetrators hit the Pentagon with a plane. I wonder how conversations go between people in both those departments/branches.
Al Qaida is a mix of Saudi money and Egytian Muslim Brotherhood know how. It all mixed together in Afghanistan. The attacks were planned and prepped in Afghanistan, and the Taliban gave them sanctuary/protection there. This makes Afghanistan a relevant country. The initial strategy there was pretty good, and yielded good results. But the neocons couldn't resist doing a nation building exercise, and that didn't go so…
Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
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Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone always forgets Yemen. Why does everyone forget Yemen? Is it because it's the Saudis again? Or is it because Obama did it? Or because Trump continued it? Or is it because Biden said he would end it but didn't? https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFkngrRDdaA Inflammatory comment I know. Tell that to the 100s of thousands being genocided.
There seems to be some disconnect with Yemen as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the Saudi's are dropping US bombs on US targets. This justification falls apart with the blockade though.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone always forgets Yemen. Why does everyone forget Yemen? Is it because it's the Saudis again? Or is it because Obama did it? Or because Trump continued it? Or is it because Biden said he would end it but didn't? https://youtube.com/watch?v=hFkngrRDdaA Inflammatory comment I know. Tell that to the 100s of thousands being genocided.
There seems to be some disconnect with Yemen as we aren't doing the bombing, we're merely supplying the bombs and planning the bombing. It's not our fault that the Saudi's are dropping US bombs on US targets. This justification falls apart with the blockade though.
LOL
EDIT: and with M777 and HIMARS it's quite literal US bombs.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone was desperately trying to let the feds know there was a pending attack since at least July/August 2001, they were just strategically deaf to it.
Best case scenario, these alerts happen so often that 99% are false positives. They regarded the 9/11 as a false positive as well. Not that that's an excuse for such a grave "error" but at least a thesis against the conspiracy theory
Al-Queda was already involved in other terrorist attacks and was known to US intelligence.
All the different agencies had info on a lot of the hijackers but they all kept it to themselves or the info wasn’t passed up the ladder.
The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright is one of the best books on this topic and goes further into it. But I’m sure you can find other references, including the 9/11 Report.
This was a massive failure by the US intelligence community.
---- Edit:
I'll add some references so my comment is a little more contributory besides just "read this book."
https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/...
This special report goes into it. Here is a quote from the report:
"The intelligence led to a surveillance operation in Malaysia in which it was discovered that Mihdhar had a valid multiple-entry U.S. visa and photographs of Mihdhar meeting with other al Qaeda operatives were taken."
The CIA had this information and should've passed it on to the FBI. (CIA operates outside the US, FBI operates inside the US.)
The report continues:
"We reviewed whether this information was in fact passed to the FBI by the CIA, and based on the evidence, concluded that while the CIA passed some of the information about Mihdhar to the FBI, it did not contemporaneously pass the information about Mihdhar’s U.S. visa to the FBI. We concluded it was not disclosed by the CIA until late August 2001, shortly before the September 11 terrorist attacks. We also reviewed whether FBI detailees to the CIA contemporaneously acquired this information and what action, if any, they took with respect to this information."
Then there's the FAA-related stuff, which is what brought on the TSA. This is from the 9/11 Report:
"The next aviation security layer was passenger prescreening. The FAA directed air carriers not to fly individuals known to pose a “direct” threat to civil aviation. But as of 9/11, the FAA’s “no-fly” list contained the names of just 12 terrorist suspects (including 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed), even though government watchlists contained the names of many thousands of known and suspected terrorists."
A few paragraphs down, the report explains why the known hijackers were still allowed to fly:
"Although the algorithm included hijacker profile data, at that time only pas- sengers checking bags were eligible to be selected by CAPPS for additional scrutiny. Selection entailed only having one’s checked baggage screened for explosives or held off the airplane until one had boarded. Primarily because of concern regarding potential discrimination and the impact on passenger throughput, “selectees” were no longer required to undergo extraordinary screening of their carry-on baggage as had been the case before the system was computerized in 1997. This policy change also reflected the perception that nonsuicide sabotage was the primary threat to civil aviation."
This is just two examples I wanted to quickly dig up. There's an entire list of failures you can find if you read the reports or the book I mentioned earlier. It's quite good reading, I promise! Understanding the failures also gets you to understand the changes that came after 9/11. This includes things like the PATRIOT act, TSA, Department of Homeland Security (DHS), etc. DHS is meant to force the intelligence communities to share intel with each other rather than "compete" for it.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#55It's clear that the US government has no intention of stirring up trouble inside Saudi Arabia because they're the middle east country that likes money more than religion, and that makes them an important partner if not ally in taming the bat-shit crazy governments of other local countries, some of which we actually put in place. So you can see how dedicated we are to 9-11 justice when it's not a goat path wasteland o…
Not taking any sides but you should really think about how much of this view is based on factual experience vs. how much could be due to propaganda or a shifted image that arrives after traveling halfway around the world.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#56Oh and of course the lockheeds and the Boeings and all those companies probably viewed the attack as an opportunity to extract billions from the American public.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
What leverage exactly? Consider a major split between SA and US. Who do you think would come out worse off?
I don't understand the questions. You can't see how knowing of a SA conspiracy against the US is leverage? Edit: Things you could do: - Increase cultural pressure within US SA community - Increase cultural pressure within US arab community - Tell SA you are wondering what Israel thinks about this - Incentivize new cultural narratives (film, books, etc) and redirect special funding to think tanks - Create a long-term…
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#58My memory of the post 9-11 investigation: Weeks 0-3: The investigation can lead anywhere as long as it does not lead to Saudia Arabia. Weeks 3+: The investigation can lead anywhere as long as it leads to Iraq.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#59Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…
It is not officially known that the Saudi government provided support to the hijackers through Embassy officials and known agents. The currently accepted story is that the Saudi government has always tried to protect the US, has never been in cahoots with Osama bin Laden (at least after he became a terrorist) or Al Queda, and is just kind of unfortunate to have some crazies live on its soil. If this is true, it is ac…
Also as far as I understand it, in Saudi Arabia the public sector is rather large and so the chance that Saudi nationals are involved in the government in some way or other is quite high already.
Re: Flurry of Calls Among Saudi Staff and Spy Coincided with 9/11 Hijackers’ Arrival
#60Not trying to be a negative Nancy here, but I did read (most) of TFA and was underwhelmed. That Saudi nationals were involved in the 9/11 attacks isn't news. That they had money and support (including from folks inside the US) isn't news. That multiple Federal and state law "enforcement" and intelligence agencies had information about the potential for these attacks isn't news. That those agencies didn't put all that…
This has already been ruled a conspiracy, the only theories are about who's in on it and who isn't. So I basically buy the South Park "9/11 Conspiracy conspiracy" where the government doesn't do very public attempts at discrediting its participation in these attacks because...like makes them look scary. Really it's the media not picking up that line. George Bush didn't even address it but denied it in the consequence…
I'm having trouble following the logic here, but I think the argument is that "passengers didn't stop the attacks and therefore it is a US government conspiracy"?
To that I'll say: How old are you? For people who were adults before 9/11 we understood how hijackings worked: the plane would be landed, there would be negations and hopefully there would be no injuries - or in the worst case maybe the plane would be stormed and a few passengers would die.
9/11 changed that. It's easy to see how true this was by how differently the passengers on flight US93 behaved: this flight was hijacked after the WTC and Pentagon suicide attacks, and they learned about that from SMS and phone calls. That led to them fighting back.
That didn't happen on the other planes because suicide hijacking attacks were new and unexpected.