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College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

americandreaming.substack.com

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Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#51

Post by kitd »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

(maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember)

How long ago was it? I only ask because my eldest child is currently at university, and I believe the experience I had in the 1980s and she has now are fundamentally different. The academic, financial and employment landscape has changed a lot in the past 20-30 years, and that creates different pressures for both students and institutions.

I now firmly believe doing a vocational, or at least employment-friendly, course at a local college or university, and probably living at home as a result is the best course of action for most students.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#52

Post by BeFlatXIII »

omarhaneef wrote: post #9

One point of view arguing for a non-stem degree is that it teaches you to read, write and think. And there is some logic to that thought. Even if you spend 4 years just learning about, say, Sociology, you have to read up on a debate, summarize the background, have an opinion, be challenged and so forth. And you are on your way to 10k hours. Now film school might have a component of that, or maybe it is teaching you h…

No matter how convincing you are, you can't succeed at fundraising if all your friends are broke.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#53

Post by the_only_law »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

If I had gone to college I might have ended up with a social life and probably wouldn’t have done much better/worse economically.

I have this current theory that there are a lot of domain/industries even in software development are made much harder to get into for the “uneducated” because the companies tend to source less experienced employees exclusively through university hiring pipelines.

Now I have no qualms absolutely tearing into the current implementation of higher education, but I’ve spent most of my life as an observer and I definitely see now some huge benefits of higher education outside a piece of paper and lectures.

My biggest frustration is that non-traditional students (outside a single demographic being ex-military) are thrown to the wayside or straight up scammed by otherwise legitimate colleges. When I first started looking at going back I was dumbfounded when schools were more interested in my high school disciplinary record and not really interested in my established professional and experience.

One popular state research university near me started offering online programs for “professional and non traditional students” but the only degrees offered are “useless liberal arts degrees” (think degrees that are used as the punchline in political slurring battles) or “made up” degrees that aren’t remotely related to any on-campus program, are often worse than the aforementioned liberal arts degreee and are designed for no other reason but to extract money from poor people. A lot of them also have jumped in the bootcamp hype. I can’t tell you how much spam I’ve seen from universities wanting me to join the Cybersecurity bootcamp.

Again this is not your typical For-profit university, this is a respected state school with best on the nation programs in certain areas.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#55

Post by coldpie »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #49
omarhaneef wrote: post #9

One point of view arguing for a non-stem degree is that it teaches you to read, write and think. And there is some logic to that thought. Even if you spend 4 years just learning about, say, Sociology, you have to read up on a debate, summarize the background, have an opinion, be challenged and so forth. And you are on your way to 10k hours. Now film school might have a component of that, or maybe it is teaching you h…

> One point of view arguing for a non-stem degree is that it teaches you to read, write and think This is where these critiques often go wrong in my opinion. There's no mention of what was learned, what value was gained over that time, because I highly doubt it was nothing. As you mention, there is an aspect of project management in making a film. You have to write a film, you have to select roles for your film, you…

The scam is in convincing (very young) people that they need to pay six figures to acquire those experiences.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#56

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

bluedino wrote: post #29

>> When I was 18, I thought I wanted to be a filmmaker. I developed a passion for it in high school, and went on to study film at university. I stopped right there.

The idea that almost any 18-year old can take on large amounts of unsecured debt to go to film school is the problem.

Making the debt non-defaultable isn't the solution. It's eliminating the credit.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#57

Post by hnburnsy »

The WSJ had an article about how graduate film programs are even worse...

>Recent film program graduates of Columbia University who took out federal student loans had a median debt of $181,000. Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/financially-hobbled-for-life-th...

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#58

Post by sleepdreamy »

I went to a no-name community college. I have zero debt, I make a livable wage. I work in IT. It can be done, you don't need to go the traditional route anymore unless you can get into a prestigious school.

Prestigious schools are worth the connections/friends you will make. Always take it if you are offered to go to Harvard, Princeton, MIT etc;

If you get into your regular state college etc then just do 2 years community first and save money. You won't make friends with wealthy/connected people in the same way you would at a prestigious university.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#59

Post by [deleted] »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #33

Chiming in as a recent American college grad... One of the most disappointing aspects of American College life is how incurious everybody seemed to be. I had grown up with Reddit & Twitter and easily, many times over, had more interesting conversations, read more nuanced takes, and learned more about the world than I did in any of my college classes. Granted, I was a STEM major with very few humanities classes. But g…

[deleted]

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#60

Post by horsawlarway »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

State schools are where it's at.

I also attended a local state school, graduated in 5 years, but doing a co-op program every other semester the last 3, making decent money at the time ($17 an hour) and getting real work experience.

I left with no debt, 2 years of real work experience, and a solid degree from a respected university (GA Tech).

The college debate is so messy because the outcome is highly dependent on what you want out of it.

I think for most of the arts - if you want to practice that art, you're far better off skipping college. The folks teaching there are not practitioners, they're professors in the subject. They will help you become an academic in the space, and that's likely not what you're after.

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