Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#51

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

JaimeThompson wrote: post #34

imbnwa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the domain of Mixed Martial Arts there's a discussion over whether to permit Russian nationals to have fights, even though the majority of Russian nationals in MMA are from colonized ethnic groups who live in the southern Russian republics, e.g. Chechnya, Dagestan, etc. Amateur wrestling would be completely fucked if it were to conceive and follow through on such a ban given the hegemony in amateur wrestling these…

>Chechnya Even if the invasion had never happened boycotting Chechnya would have been acceptable given their previous actions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya#LGBT_rights

[deleted]

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#52

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

shtopointo wrote: post #41

What’s with all these cancellations of Russian citizens? Surely this is not going to look good at the end of this war, and it’ll just be more propaganda for the Russian gov’t to use - “look, the west doesn’t care about you”. Is this just “cancel culture” exposed in a different area?

[deleted]

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#53

Post by pbourke » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #18

endisneigh wrote: post #3

Gotta love how discrimination is so easily spread. Like, this guy has said very many times in public that he doesn’t support the invasion, but he’s Russian, y’know? It’s sad how humanity just keeps doing the same thing over and over…

Agreed - I can't believe how quickly the "mainstream" had adopted a hatred basically of a whole people based on the actions of an autocratic leader that does not represent them, and where speaking out would almost certainly have very bad consequences. We should be doing everything we can to stop Putin from waging war, but casual hatred of a group is not helpful or appropriate, even if it's the obvious extension of al…

I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. What you say is correct and ethical, in my view. Putin and the Russian government are to blame, not random Russian citizens.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#54

Post by rvz » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

sethbannon wrote: post #7

For those curious, Alexander Grischuk did put out a fairly strong statement of condemnation of the invasion: https://worldchess.com/news/all/alexander-grischuk-on-the-ru... Pretty brave of him.

Looks like Norway Chess could not distinguish between the individual's view vs the views of the Russian Government and did an over-reactionary blanket ban on any Russian which is beyond stupid, even though he condemned it.

Does that mean if say, Garry Kasparov was to play against another chess player, he should be banned even though he also condemned the invasion? Quite ridiculous tbh.

Even Russian cats are banned [0], they don't have a view of the Russian governments actions on the invasion either and have nothing to do with it, except 'being from Russia'.

Of course from them, there's no redemption. Anything Russian thrown into the lost and banned.

To Downvoters: You do realise you can be Russian and be against the Russian government and condemn the whole invasion right?

[0] https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499289953443930113

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#55

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

wedn3sday wrote: post #16

It doesnt matter if the person themselves opposes the Ukrainian invasion, the person is representing Russia. Is it the tournament organizers job to vet the political views of every single participant to make sure they're sufficiently anti-putin? Blocking Russian participants isnt about blocking the individual people, its about sending a blanket statement across the board.

The is position that a person with Russian citizen cannot represent themselves and will always be representing the country is bankrupt.

Invitations are based on personal performance, not allocated based on national identity like the Olympics.

Should us companies fire workers with Russian citizenship or ties?

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#56

Post by pbourke » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

altcognito wrote: post #23

version_five wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - I can't believe how quickly the "mainstream" had adopted a hatred basically of a whole people based on the actions of an autocratic leader that does not represent them, and where speaking out would almost certainly have very bad consequences. We should be doing everything we can to stop Putin from waging war, but casual hatred of a group is not helpful or appropriate, even if it's the obvious extension of al…

“Do everything we can, but not this, this is too harsh.”

Can you not see how this statement must be true at some point?

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#57

Post by endisneigh » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

goto11 wrote: post #46

endisneigh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is obviously to punish those causing the harm directly, no? Obviously much easier said than done. Also not sure why you’re mentioning America here - the article is about Norway

> The solution is obviously to punish those causing the harm directly, no? You mean direct war against Russia? That would certainly also cause collateral damage on innocents.

Fighting the people directly who are holding the guns will do less “collateral damage” than uniform discrimination of all Russians.

I’m not a fan of violence in general, though. Ideally they’d find another way without killing anyone.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#58

Post by shtopointo » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

altcognito wrote: post #21

endisneigh wrote: post #3

Gotta love how discrimination is so easily spread. Like, this guy has said very many times in public that he doesn’t support the invasion, but he’s Russian, y’know? It’s sad how humanity just keeps doing the same thing over and over…

Quoted post unavailable.

Yea what is the solution when the west throws sanctions but keeps buying Russian oil and gas? Basically bankrolling this invasion.

Like others have said the solution to this crisis might be “drill baby drill” but that’s unfortunately more toxic or an argument than a country getting bombed to the ground. I guess we can stomach the war but not domestic oil and gas production.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#59

Post by jjgreen » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #18

endisneigh wrote: post #3

Gotta love how discrimination is so easily spread. Like, this guy has said very many times in public that he doesn’t support the invasion, but he’s Russian, y’know? It’s sad how humanity just keeps doing the same thing over and over…

Agreed - I can't believe how quickly the "mainstream" had adopted a hatred basically of a whole people based on the actions of an autocratic leader that does not represent them, and where speaking out would almost certainly have very bad consequences. We should be doing everything we can to stop Putin from waging war, but casual hatred of a group is not helpful or appropriate, even if it's the obvious extension of al…

> an autocratic leader that does not represent them

They did elect him (with 76.69% of the vote).

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#60

Post by somenameforme » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

This is getting really stupid. Anytime there is some major event we always work to try to ensure that people appreciate there is a difference between the people of a country and the bad actors of a country - even when those bad actors are the government. But now because it's our favorite geopolitical enemy, everything goes out the window.

Imagine if the victims of our wars (or their partners) were more influential and were able to effectively spread global messages of arbitrary hate and intolerance against people simply for being American. And not mob mentality from extremists and radicals already predispositioned to hate, but orchestrated top-down hatred and intolerance from the "liberal" world order.

This is not going to spark some amazing revolution of frustrated chess players, disabled athletes, and cat show enthusiasts. The only thing this sort of stuff is doing is driving more hatred and division, and helping us inch that much closer to WW3. Putin invading Ukraine was a terrible decision; many Russians of all walks of lives oppose it. Yet they're at least as helpless to ever change any of it than we are to end our never-ending wars in the Mideast since we, at least in theory, could stop voting for warmongers.