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The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

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Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#51

Post by garmaine »

topkai22 wrote: post #36
nscalf wrote: post #12

An honest question, how do you feel about the WHO? I personally have severe distrust in them, at least the leadership. They have show they are heavily influenced by China, and that should be enough to remove them. They really botched early covid.

Flawed, but better than not having a WHO. IMO China’s influence is more because they did a great job at committing hard to diplomacy and working relationships at WHO at the exact same time the US pulled away. It turns out diplomacy and leadership matter. In my limited experience, the WHO, like many NGOs/multi-lateral bodies, is full of intelligent, motivated people dedicated to their mission. Those people aren’t moti…

The WHO did measurable damage throughout the pandemic, but particularly in the beginning. They played down covid, were against travel bans, was anti-mask, and have hindered investigation into the origins of covid.

They also did good, like getting PCR testing available worldwide on a compressed timescale. But let’s not pretend that the good didn’t come with a healthy helping of truly terrible decisions along the way. Enough to make some healthy skepticism seem prudent.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#52

Post by philliphaydon »

jacquesm wrote: post #50
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organizations are driven by incentives. The incentives haven’t changed, therefore organizations haven’t learned their lesson. Second, nations exist to serve their populations. Think xenophobia and racism are bad now? Wait until it’s life or death and a decision is now directly attributable to the deaths of those around you. “Sorry Aunt Edna, you have to die. A factory worker in Mexico got your vaccine so they can mak…

> The WHO is politically controlled by China The nonsense in this thread is really painful to read. No, the WHO is not politically controlled by China.

China called it the Wuhan Virus. When the world called it the Wuhan Virus. State run media and the CCP called it racist. Then the WHO bent over and changed it. When the “India variant” happened, the WHO didn’t batter an eyelid.

China spent ages blocking Taiwan from the discussion and succeeded as the WHO had to appease the CCP.

Seems like chinas influence on the WHO is a lot.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#53

Post by louloulou »

jacquesm wrote: post #50
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organizations are driven by incentives. The incentives haven’t changed, therefore organizations haven’t learned their lesson. Second, nations exist to serve their populations. Think xenophobia and racism are bad now? Wait until it’s life or death and a decision is now directly attributable to the deaths of those around you. “Sorry Aunt Edna, you have to die. A factory worker in Mexico got your vaccine so they can mak…

> The WHO is politically controlled by China The nonsense in this thread is really painful to read. No, the WHO is not politically controlled by China.

On Feb. 4, 2020, after a private meeting with Xi, Tedros formally announced to the WHO Executive Board that there was no need to “interfere with international travel and trade” and restricting Chinese flights was “counter-productive” to fighting the global spread of the virus.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#54

Post by ei8htyfi5e »

jacquesm wrote: post #50
ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organizations are driven by incentives. The incentives haven’t changed, therefore organizations haven’t learned their lesson. Second, nations exist to serve their populations. Think xenophobia and racism are bad now? Wait until it’s life or death and a decision is now directly attributable to the deaths of those around you. “Sorry Aunt Edna, you have to die. A factory worker in Mexico got your vaccine so they can mak…

> The WHO is politically controlled by China The nonsense in this thread is really painful to read. No, the WHO is not politically controlled by China.

I’m sorry, but I think we’re on different planets here.

I work and live in DC and that’s a forgone conclusion here.

Since I can’t ask you for evidence of China NOT controlling the WHO, maybe I can put it to HN:

Does anybody have a good article for this person to read about China and the WHO?

Maybe google “WHO China Influence”. There are thousands of articles.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#55

Post by garmaine »

jimmydorry wrote: post #46
toolz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that people ever trusted them to be honest. When have deeply political organizations been a benefit to the medical community?

On a whole, the world is better off with the FDA's and their equivalent per nation. They approve and oversee the distribution of health and food products and set out minimum guidelines that influence how said products are marketed, recalled or banned; which on balance is a positive for society in the absence of a better regulatory body. By definition, these groups are political though. Almost none of them conduct the…

Anyone who lived through the AIDS epidemic can tell you that having a regulatory body is not automatically better than none at all. FDA bureaucracy and inaction has killed more Americans than WW2. Dissolving the FDA, or at least the gatekeeping branches of it, is a third option that ought to be seriously considered.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#56

Post by throwawaysea »

tablespoon wrote: post #38
marchingtomars wrote: post #35

Stop with the globalism Nations should handle their borders-- that's the point and root of a nation: to be born in a specifically territory.

> Stop with the globalism > Nations should handle their borders-- that's the point and root of a nation: to be born in a specifically territory. And obviously, there are giant classes of problems that cannot be addressed effectively (or at all) with that outlook. For instance: a nation focused solely on its own territory will be unable to prevent a pandemic disease from affecting it if its neighbor manages to cover i…

> For instance: a nation focused solely on its own territory will be unable to prevent a pandemic disease from affecting it if its neighbor manages to cover it up long enough for it spread across the boarder.

Isn’t this what happened with COVID-19 anyways in the present situation with globalism? There were scientists from WIV that were hospitalized in November. A lab leak still seems like the most likely origin theory. China didn’t tell the WHO until the end of December 2019, and it isn’t clear why - perhaps they didn’t want to cause panic, or maybe they wanted to be sure before taking big steps, or maybe they were secretly hoarding medical supplies, or maybe they did not want the rest of the world to continue pandemic-free and leave them behind economically. I cannot say which, but given the kind of things the CCP is willing to do (see Tibet, Hong Kong, Uyghurs, etc.) I wouldn’t put malicious strategy past them. But my point is, even with globalism, I am not sure we get the benefit of neighbors not covering things up - so we might as well try something else?

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#57

Post by jacquesm »

louloulou wrote: post #53
jacquesm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The WHO is politically controlled by China The nonsense in this thread is really painful to read. No, the WHO is not politically controlled by China.

On Feb. 4, 2020, after a private meeting with Xi, Tedros formally announced to the WHO Executive Board that there was no need to “interfere with international travel and trade” and restricting Chinese flights was “counter-productive” to fighting the global spread of the virus.

That's a far cry from claiming that China controls the WHO.

This was simply because at that time there wasn't any evidence to the contrary, which, unfortunately turned out to be not true once more evidence came out.

You know what? We still don't have the whole picture, and we will still come to conclusions that hindsight will tell us is wrong.

But that doesn't mean you need to attribute all of that to malice or control by the Chinese.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#58

Post by topkai22 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #6
nynx wrote: post #2

I hope this happens. The world needs more collaboration, especially in pandemic response.

Of all the problems international cooperation could tackle, pandemics seem like they should be the easiest. Either you are dealing with one, or you aren't. Pretty stark contrast. So should make countries more comfortable ceding sovereignty, knowing it's going to be only in exceptional circumstances. Coupled with the fact that SARS-CoV-2 has proven that even the most stringent border lockdowns fail in the face of high…

Point of order- The most stringent border lockdowns actually worked shockingly well, see New Zealand, for example.

Also “you are either in a pandemic, or you aren’t” isn’t the important part of a response framework. The far more important part is preventing novel diseases from becoming a pandemic in the first place, even if they have the potential to be.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#59

Post by tablespoon »

marchingtomars wrote: post #43
tablespoon wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop with the globalism > Nations should handle their borders-- that's the point and root of a nation: to be born in a specifically territory. And obviously, there are giant classes of problems that cannot be addressed effectively (or at all) with that outlook. For instance: a nation focused solely on its own territory will be unable to prevent a pandemic disease from affecting it if its neighbor manages to cover i…

--> My nation belongs to my Government, governed by my people. Not a non-transparent, subject-to-corruption international agency Again: nations should handle their borders. That means a strong border policy focused on border defense from illegal entry, and reduced, quarantined, and/or eliminated immigration in times of pandemic. And I disagree with your assessment especially your assertion of "unable". Sure, Some nat…

>>> Stop with the globalism

> Again: nations should handle their borders.

> That means a strong border policy focused on border defense from illegal entry, and reduced, quarantined, and/or eliminated immigration in times of pandemic.

And again, that won't actually work during a pandemic. Are you going to strand your own citizens overseas at a drop of a hat? Diseases can travel in them just as well as in a foreigner. If your focus is exclusively on your own borders and territory, and you're not cooperating with other nations, your border agency is going to be flying blind in the early stages of a pandemic and will probably fail to keep the disease out.

Similarly, even if you do manage to control it internally, the kinds of barriers you'll need to maintain will have massive costs, that may actually be higher than participating in a global response to a global problem.

Re: The WHO is seeking a new treaty on handling future pandemics

#60

Post by jacquesm »

ei8htyfi5e wrote: post #54
jacquesm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The WHO is politically controlled by China The nonsense in this thread is really painful to read. No, the WHO is not politically controlled by China.

I’m sorry, but I think we’re on different planets here. I work and live in DC and that’s a forgone conclusion here. Since I can’t ask you for evidence of China NOT controlling the WHO, maybe I can put it to HN: Does anybody have a good article for this person to read about China and the WHO? Maybe google “WHO China Influence”. There are thousands of articles.

> I work and live in DC and that’s a forgone conclusion here.

Oh ok, that makes it true then.

> Does anybody have a good article for this person to read about China and the WHO?

How about you go and try to educate yourself a bit about what the WHO actually is and how it is governed before making a fool of yourself like this? The only circles where people really believe that the United Nations and the WHO are run by the Chinese are those that you probably don't want to be associated with.

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