Something special is happening in Barcelona • Hacker News Board

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#51

Post by analog31 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #20

This would be incredibly frustrating to me as a car driver. I don’t think having shared roads for a vocal minority of bikers makes sense. It basically slows down everyone to bike speed, which I realize is the unspoken strategy of bike activists, and it is also why I am against supporting bike-friendly policies in their current form. It makes more sense to have cities build raised biking/walking lanes outside of the t…

I'm an urban cyclist. I get around town by bike whenever I can, though my family does still own cars for longer trips or moving large objects. I certainly don't try to slow everybody down. Getting into the main traffic lane has that effect, but it's a side effect, and I don't do it very often or for very long. In most cases, I could probably make a safe bet that dipping into the traffic lane isn't slowing down anybody's actual travel time by any appreciable amount.

But I greatly prefer to choose routes that avoid fast, congested car traffic. This also appears to be the approach of my city when developing new or improved roadways.

But truth be told, the major thing slowing cars down is other cars. Trying to increase traffic flow through a given area will eventually cause it to slow down to a crawl, bikes or no bikes.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#52

Post by ardit33 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #47

throwawaysea wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical mass events are incredibly disruptive and are an offensively aggressive act to those who are just trying to go about their day and use the infrastructure for its funded intent - which is to say, cars and other motorized vehicles that move at higher speeds. It’s one thing to advocate for changes through proper political channels. It’s another thing entirely to hijack infrastructure, clog intersections by circ…

I participated in London, and saw mostly the opposite. Most of the ride was well-behaved and didn't hold people up much, and there were drivers constantly behaving in really dangerous ways, like trying to drive into the mass. Like you and someone else who replied to you, I was uncomfortable with the deliberate blocking of intersections, but "participants should be arrested and charged" is way over the top for what us…

Yeah, it started devolving into vandalism / hatred towards cars:

Critical Mass cyclist attacks car with U-lock in San Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/critical-mass-cyclist-attacks-car...

Minivan's rude introduction to Critical Smash https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Minivan-s...

A Toyota mini van sits in a repair shop in Mountain View with a broken back window and numerous scratches to the body. The van was attacked by critical mass riders last friday. At the time of the attack a woman and five kids were in the car.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#53

Post by pavel_lishin » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #13

I live there too, and traffic here is pretty busy. Personally I don't really understand why so many people drive. Because public transport here is extremely efficient and cheap. I don't even own a car here and I'm really happy to no longer need one. But if I had kids I wouldn't really let them participate. Even with the police escort, they might lose the group and be on their own in this busy city. I'm from near Amst…

> But if I had kids I wouldn't really let them participate. Even with the police escort, they might lose the group and be on their own in this busy city.

At what age would you be comfortable with them biking on their own?

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#54

Post by jon_n » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #29

yodsanklai wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car pollute, are extremely dangerous to other road users, and take a lot of space on the road. Cars in city should be the exception, not the rule.

> pollute I consider the level of pollution to be minimal. It’s not even noticeable in many US cities. Plus this is also always improving, particularly with increasing popularity of hybrids and electric cars. > extremely dangerous to other road user First off, “extremely dangerous” is hyperbole. The number of fatalities on roads is very low, and it will keep getting lower as safety features like blind spot monitoring…

> I consider the level of pollution to be minimal. It’s not even noticeable in many US cities.

Transport is one of the highest contributors to greenhouse gases in the US with light vehicles being the largest contributor to that sector https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P10127TU.pdf

>The number of fatalities on roads is very low,

Road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death in the United States for people aged 1–54 https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/global-road-safety/index...

> and it will keep getting lower as safety features like blind spot monitoring become standards.

The rate has been pretty stagnant for the last 10 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

> the US the fatality rate is something like 1 per 100 million vehicle miles.

This is true, but this number needs context. Average US driver covers 13k a year * by a lifetime of driving your over 1/2 a million miles per person, so the number you should be presenting is 1 in 200 chance to die. And thats just fatalities, when you consdier serious injury as well, the number isn't great.

> I suspect most people, don’t mind using space for things that are high value, like cars.

Was with you until "like cars". Cars waste a lot of space. They take up space in city centres, parked, while you're working/shopping, when you're actually in them they're still using a lot of space for typically one person. I think we'll see a lot more of this in the coming decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeway_removal

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#55

Post by 908B64B197 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #44

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #38

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars…

how did people react to reduction of cars ? in many places every step toward reduction of car use is met with a lot of rants if not anger.

The problem is a bunch of place introduce traffic limitations or some congestion tax...

But then do nothing else! You have to find an alternative for people to not take their car (closer grocery shop for instance).

Meanwhile the money goes to some pension fund for underperforming, unionized municipal workers...

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#56

Post by qgadrian » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #44

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #38

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars…

how did people react to reduction of cars ? in many places every step toward reduction of car use is met with a lot of rants if not anger.

People who live in the city live it, people (specially rich people) who drives from outside the city hate it.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#57

Post by kaladin-jasnah » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

yokaze wrote: post #12

If you read this, or other things about reducing car traffic in Barcelona, one should keep the following in mind: https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/lafabricadelsol/en/noticia/... 6000cars/km² in Barcelona. San Francisco/Oakland metropolitan area has 4000/sq mi... 1540/km² Guttenberg, NJ has the highest in the US with 20,600/sq mi (8000/km²) Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.planetizen.com/node/45622%3...

De-AMPed link: https://www.planetizen.com/node/45622

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#58

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

throw63738 wrote: post #14

Some pictures show there is perfectly working cycling path next to road. As someone who walks and uses bus, I have little sympathy for such stunts. Just another privileged group stealing public roads. Next time it will be politician and his convoy.

We had roads before we had cars. Cars stole roads from people.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#59

Post by AlotOfReading » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #37

AlotOfReading wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever spent time in BCN? Unless you're way out in the suburbs of Badalona, there's very little reason to use a car for commuting. Secondly, raised lanes are horrendously expensive, ugly, and reduce street level light. Any city where they're the default is going to be a city where bike infrastructure effectively doesn't exist. Cities should serve people, not cars.

I have spent a lot of time in Barcelona, and love the city, although I’ve only had short stays (~weeks) and haven’t resided there in the traditional sense. I think increasing car hostility makes it less hospitable and accessible to many people away from the core. There’s also a tradeoff which isn’t being acknowledged here. A city that manages its density appropriately will have faster travel times via cars compared t…

Are you suggesting Seattle has a better commute situation than Barcelona? Respectfully, that's insane. Moreover, large parts of the city were designed prior to motorized vehicles and encourage frequent mode mixing. High speed is simply not on the table for discussion. The choice is between low speed, low density car traffic, or mixed mode. The latter is clearly much better for neighborhoods and the city as a whole.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#60

Post by mejutoco » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 10:26 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #37

AlotOfReading wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever spent time in BCN? Unless you're way out in the suburbs of Badalona, there's very little reason to use a car for commuting. Secondly, raised lanes are horrendously expensive, ugly, and reduce street level light. Any city where they're the default is going to be a city where bike infrastructure effectively doesn't exist. Cities should serve people, not cars.

I have spent a lot of time in Barcelona, and love the city, although I’ve only had short stays (~weeks) and haven’t resided there in the traditional sense. I think increasing car hostility makes it less hospitable and accessible to many people away from the core. There’s also a tradeoff which isn’t being acknowledged here. A city that manages its density appropriately will have faster travel times via cars compared t…

> A city that manages its density appropriately will have faster travel times via cars compared to public transit or biking

This seems like nonsense. Surely public transport has more capacity than cars, or at least it is not guaranteed that cars have more.