Something special is happening in Barcelona • Hacker News Board

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#31

Post by SantalBlush » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #20

This would be incredibly frustrating to me as a car driver. I don’t think having shared roads for a vocal minority of bikers makes sense. It basically slows down everyone to bike speed, which I realize is the unspoken strategy of bike activists, and it is also why I am against supporting bike-friendly policies in their current form. It makes more sense to have cities build raised biking/walking lanes outside of the t…

I don't own or use a bike, I am a car driver. Personal cars are absurdly inefficient on many levels. They take up precious urban space (roads and parking lots), they injure and kill people, they are extremely expensive, they are a major source of pollution.... Every time I've been stuck in five lanes of gridlock I've thought to myself, "This is one of the dumbest infrastructure issues that modern humans have to put up with." Bikes and public transportation just make way more sense in urban areas on so many levels, it's not even close. Cars are a blight on the urban landscape. The only reason I drive one daily is because our infrastructure leaves me no other choice. It sucks.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#32

Post by bodo11 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

Fargren wrote: post #4

Reminds me of Masa Crítica in Buenos Aires, a monthly event where lots (probably around a hundred, maybe two?) of bikers would pedal from the city center to the outskirts, to show support for the rights of people using bicycles.

In Europe (mainly Germany ATM) there has been a wordplay on this for a few years, the "kidical mass" movement:

https://kinderaufsrad.org/

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#33

Post by whazor » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #20

This would be incredibly frustrating to me as a car driver. I don’t think having shared roads for a vocal minority of bikers makes sense. It basically slows down everyone to bike speed, which I realize is the unspoken strategy of bike activists, and it is also why I am against supporting bike-friendly policies in their current form. It makes more sense to have cities build raised biking/walking lanes outside of the t…

Agreed on the shared roads, but in cities it is better to put the cars on pillars. Removing cars from roads does wonders and makes neighborhoods look much nicer. Instead of the pillars you can remove cars from most roads and have limited one-way roads that are fast and without traffic lights. The cars can park in a parking garage and continue on foot/bike/tram. I believe this is faster for the cars as well.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#34

Post by desas » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #20

This would be incredibly frustrating to me as a car driver. I don’t think having shared roads for a vocal minority of bikers makes sense. It basically slows down everyone to bike speed, which I realize is the unspoken strategy of bike activists, and it is also why I am against supporting bike-friendly policies in their current form. It makes more sense to have cities build raised biking/walking lanes outside of the t…

Most bike activists don't have an unspoken strategy of slowing people down. They want to be able to use their bike to get places safely and quickly and they want others to feel able to do that too.

It doesn't make sense to create biking / walking lanes raised up on pillars because a) that introduces artificial hills and b) it increases effort to get places - you'll only be able to get on or off the raised system at a ramp, which might be inconvenient.

In London the average car speed is 11-12 mph, and then you'll have to walk to / from a car park. Cars aren't always fast and point to point

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#35

Post by smegcicle » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

Aachen wrote: post #9

"Something special" oooh, how mysteriously... enticing... clickbait... Does someone who clicked want to suggest a better title for OP?

I was hoping something to do with the catalonian secession movement, but it's just.. kids riding bikes?

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#36

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

This is very clever. I could imagine this makes drivers pick other times to drive eventually so once this is common enough, then at certain times there would be very little traffic. If cities were effectively car-free for just 30 minutes in the morning that could make a huge difference in the number of people riding bikes.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#37

Post by throwawaysea » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

AlotOfReading wrote: post #26

throwawaysea wrote: post #20

This would be incredibly frustrating to me as a car driver. I don’t think having shared roads for a vocal minority of bikers makes sense. It basically slows down everyone to bike speed, which I realize is the unspoken strategy of bike activists, and it is also why I am against supporting bike-friendly policies in their current form. It makes more sense to have cities build raised biking/walking lanes outside of the t…

Have you ever spent time in BCN? Unless you're way out in the suburbs of Badalona, there's very little reason to use a car for commuting. Secondly, raised lanes are horrendously expensive, ugly, and reduce street level light. Any city where they're the default is going to be a city where bike infrastructure effectively doesn't exist. Cities should serve people, not cars.

I have spent a lot of time in Barcelona, and love the city, although I’ve only had short stays (~weeks) and haven’t resided there in the traditional sense. I think increasing car hostility makes it less hospitable and accessible to many people away from the core. There’s also a tradeoff which isn’t being acknowledged here. A city that manages its density appropriately will have faster travel times via cars compared to public transit or biking (BCN may be past this inflection point). You can see this in cities like Seattle - it’s not even a close comparison, as driving is at least twice as fast as any alternate mode. That time saved is very valuable, and necessary for anyone who wants to live a rich, fulfilled lifestyle with room for activities, families, and friends.

> Secondly, raised lanes are horrendously expensive, ugly, and reduce street level light.

Having bikes in roads is expensive too. It costs everyone time, which is money. Ugly is subjective. And as for street level light - maybe. That depends on the exact parameters like road width. On a wider arterial road a raised greenway on pillars wouldn’t cast a shadow on the street level sidewalks. Chicago has an elevated rail system for example, and it doesn’t cause streets to feel dark.

> Cities should serve people, not cars.

Respectfully, this is an empty slogan. You could just as well say “cities should serve people, not bikes”. Cities serve people better by accommodating cars. People are who chose to raise taxes and spend money on roads for cars.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#38

Post by yawaworht1978 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars. The only traffic jams you'll encounter is if an accident happened or if you go from Barcelona outwards toward the airport, when commuters go home on Friday afternoons or evening when headed to the nicer , less crowded beaches in the south. But absolutely nothing compared to London, I have lived there as well and driven a car. It's the city with the worst traffic jams you can imagine, it starts at 7am and never really ends, after 8pm it's quite calm and deserted one weekdays. But weekends, if you wanna go from the south east to the north, God help you. It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars. Taxis have a separate lane, and buses as well. The public transportation is also very good, affordable, you have buses, underground trains, and well, overground trains. And it's a nice city to walk, the old part of town, the huge parks, really nice.

A role model implementation as far reducing car traffic issues go. Many people use these electro kind skateboards(forgot name) and scooters. And many people just walk. Of course , it needs to be mentioned that Barcelona is not built like American suburb areas, it's all apartment blocks of 3-7 stories, all blocks glued together. It's tight, they even have a convention on how to dry your clothes on balconies and how not to do it. Barcelona has many other issues, the typical ones for large cities, but transport and car traffic, I haven't seen better in Europe.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#39

Post by rektide » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

once again just really really wish there were p2p ways to connect & send data about.

i imagine the phones on the bike bus advertising who they are, what their schedule is, who can join, how to join, and letting folks about know what the route is, what disruption to expect, how to plan around this happening.

hoping on the bandwagon is enough to make this happen in some places but i think the core kernel idea could use some shareability & amplifiability in other places. a more reductionist expression is simply that the real world lacks virality potential. projects like Google's Eddystone[1]/Project Lighthouse (2015) are few & far between, underfunded & in Eddystone's case seemingly abandoned, but embuing reality with more of the neat connective capabilities of the computerized info-verse remains- i think- a key enabler.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddystone_(Google)

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#40

Post by frereubu » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

I had an idea similar to this, based on my experience of Critical Mass cycle rides in London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)

It was called "Cycle Pods", which would be mini-critical mass rides for commuters. You'd probably need between five and ten riders who cycle the same route each day at a roughly similar pace, so you could register with a route and see whose rides were similar to yours.

The other idea was even more loose, where you'd wear something like a tabard with an identifiable "cycle pods" logo where anyone who was wearing one was effectively advertising that they were open to riding with other people. I preferred this version because it's simpler and decentralised. Anyone could make something with the logo on it, so no purchase or registration needed.

I love the idea of doing it with kids, but honestly some of the reactions we got from car and van drivers with the Critical Mass rides, even when we were going at a decent pace, were incredibly dangerous, and I'd worry about that with kids unless the police were involved, as they were in this Bicibús. We had to have outriders looking out for car drivers who'd try to drive into the middle of the mass. There's something about cyclists taking over the road that really provokes some drivers.