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A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

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Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#51
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern California has considerable oil and natural gas seepage off shore. Many of the oil rigs aren't drilling but simply harvesting the seeps. They passively collect 100-150 barrels a day from the Coal Oil Point Seep Field. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Oil_Point_seep_field The oil in question was not from a seep however. It came from the processing platform Elly that supports two other drilling rigs in the…

Seems like the "massive oil spill" from the link is equivalent to half a year of natural seepage from this single seep field.

Yeah 120,000 gallons is a proverbial drop in the context of the Pacific ocean. Too bad it was close enough to shore to cause this local environmental problem though.

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#52
post #37

I walked along Huntington Beach’s beach today to checkout what happened. Although the cleanup workers did a great job, there were still puddles of oil on the sand, and you could definitely smell it in the air. The puddles were much clumpier than I imagined, but guess that’s just how crude oil is.

From looking at the news videos of the tarballs, some crude oil is just like what has made it to the beach.

In Alberta CA the famous tar sands are about like this, including even the sand, otherwise this is mainly the remaining wax and tar content which picks up the sand when it washes up.

After "weathering" before drifting ashore, most of the light volatile hydrocarbon content has evaporated leaving only the heavy residue consisting of wax & bitumen which balls up as the sheen shrinks naturally.

If it was a light crude to begin with that could quite often look more like root beer (complete with foam) when fresh or even be as semi-transparent as iced tea. And can be quite low in viscosity compared to diesel fuel.

In the case of really light crude there might only be about 1 percent residuum content, IOW for every 100 barrels spilled only 1 barrel of this tar would remain to wash ashore after evaporation of the light ends.

Other times with a heavy crude each barrel might be more than 50 percent residuum, which means orders of magnitude difference in shoreline devastation per barrel lost from the pipeline.

Looks like the operator is Amplify Energy whose spokesman didn't seem that well-spoken, and I think it can be recognized as a deer-in-the-headlights moment. Seems like they are one of the ones finding their niche by taking over proven properties from much larger oil companies who had drilled the wells and fully depreciated the assets years ago. Everything has already paid for itself so attractive deals can always be made for next-generation investors. The majors could have easily gone "green" decades ago with their financial resources (could have divested from oil completely) and provided good shareholder returns from pure financial operations, but naturally there is even more money in continuing to bring in gushers.

Shell did a bit of that last month when they sold lots of their Texas wells to Conoco, I would expect the ones needing extensive infrastructure repair will be passed on to smaller companies like Amplify before the bill for that kind of thing comes due, while the figures still look as good on paper as they ever did.

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#53
post #42
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could downvote this

I wish we could hellban roboposts. Downvoting is just free training at this point.

I wish we could ban greed, entitlement, airshows, airports, airplanes, shipping, drilling... and oil.

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil is not naturally occurring on the surface of the earth. It can only be formed underground, it is extremely poisonous, it kills almost every living organism. You can say that deep underground oil is natural, but on the surface of the earth certainly not.

Oil is not naturally occurring on the surface of the earth. If it didn't naturally seep out of the ground, humans never would have discovered it and started using it. See this comment thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28740261

This apparently popular argument of the form "hey, it's natural, so it doesn't matter! Hah, hypocritical environmentalists!" is utterly absurd, not only false equivalence, but a brain dead employment of an appeal to nature fallacy. That some amount of seepage is naturally occurring does not remotely excuse the obnoxious, mind-boggling amount of death to nature caused by oil spills due to the economic activity of humans. Every single year in the history of the oil industry there have been major spills. That's 162 years worth of major oil spills. Sure seepage is natural; oil spills are not.

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#55
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oil is not naturally occurring on the surface of the earth. It can only be formed underground, it is extremely poisonous, it kills almost every living organism. You can say that deep underground oil is natural, but on the surface of the earth certainly not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits It isn’t formed on the surface, but it is naturally occurring.

Are oil spills naturally occurring? Were the La Brea Tar Pits caused by an oil spill? [1] Is it morally permissible for an arsonist or an irresponsible camper to burn down the neighborhood and an entire forest with it because fire is natural? [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#56
post #6
post #4

It is deemed to be repeated, as long as most people are too indifferent to push this kind of unjustified environmental damage to the headlines

But oil spills have been trending down over the past few decades, even as oil shipments have increased: https://ourworldindata.org/oil-spills . You're right it won't go to zero, in the same sense that airplane crashes won't ever go to zero. however that's because it's really hard to prevent all airplane crashes/oil spills, not because people are "too indifferent".

I think my comment was a mistake. I didn't think it through, and just posted it out of emotion. Thanks

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#57
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes for an interesting thought experiment: purposefully combining oil rigs and pipelines with populated areas, so that in case something goes wrong humans get hit first. I imagine then we'd hold oil infrastructure maintenance to a higher standard than the appalling “monthly surface checks”. Of course, it's idealistic and humans would never behave this way.

Aren't there already pipelines to crowded areas? I mean, that's where they're typically consumed right? Also, it's not like pipelines that are in the middle of nowhere could be replaced with pipelines in urban areas. The whole point of pipelines is to cross between where it's produced and where it's consumed. Even if you built a bunch of pipelines in populated areas for no reason in the hopes that it will gather more…

You underestimate how far-fetched the suggested thought experiment is—it presumes if there is some dangerous extraction away from populated areas (like a rig off shore), then there must be cities created there so that any trouble is felt and observed by humans first and then the rest of the ecosystem.

For now there’s a social outcry if oil spills far away, but imagine you see dead ocean out of your window. Could be a sci-fi setting…

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#58
post #37

I walked along Huntington Beach’s beach today to checkout what happened. Although the cleanup workers did a great job, there were still puddles of oil on the sand, and you could definitely smell it in the air. The puddles were much clumpier than I imagined, but guess that’s just how crude oil is.

From looking at the news videos of the tarballs, some crude oil is just like what has made it to the beach. In Alberta CA the famous tar sands are about like this, including even the sand, otherwise this is mainly the remaining wax and tar content which picks up the sand when it washes up. After "weathering" before drifting ashore, most of the light volatile hydrocarbon content has evaporated leaving only the heavy r…

Could you explain the economics of selling these wells among companies? It sounds like what you are trying to say is akin to Budget selling its fleet of 1 year old rental cars to Rent -a-Wreck and not doing any maintenance on them in the meantime.

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#59
post #56
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But oil spills have been trending down over the past few decades, even as oil shipments have increased: https://ourworldindata.org/oil-spills . You're right it won't go to zero, in the same sense that airplane crashes won't ever go to zero. however that's because it's really hard to prevent all airplane crashes/oil spills, not because people are "too indifferent".

I think my comment was a mistake. I didn't think it through, and just posted it out of emotion. Thanks

how so?

Re: A massive oil spill in the Pacific Ocean reached the Southern California coast

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern California has considerable oil and natural gas seepage off shore. Many of the oil rigs aren't drilling but simply harvesting the seeps. They passively collect 100-150 barrels a day from the Coal Oil Point Seep Field. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_Oil_Point_seep_field The oil in question was not from a seep however. It came from the processing platform Elly that supports two other drilling rigs in the…

Just because it happens in nature doesn't mean it's OK for us to make it happen in more places. If you've ever been to the beach around that oil seep you'd know it sucks to get the tar on you or your surfboard. We don't need more.

i’ve been getting tarballs on everything and everywhere in santa barbara my entire life. there are several capped oil rigs offshore in the channel.

it seems like even without a spill, these things are dangerous to ecologies over the long term. the petroleum industry has negative externalities at every end and throughout it’s operations.

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