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Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

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Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#51

Post by tzs »

jbotz wrote: post #22
p_l wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem is that the pills people are obtaining are "just a horse dewormer" . The specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ (drug delivery is frighteningly complex area). Meanwhile people made enough run on ivermectin-based horse dewormer that people had trouble getting it for livestock.

> the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ Neither the dosages nor the active ingredients are different. Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. The "active ingredients" are Ivermectin, period. I have a bottle of injectable Ivermectin intended for cattle here, and it says it's pure Ivermectin in propylene…

> Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight.

I think he might have meant the dosage that it is sold in is different.

Ivermectin for treating parasites is typically supposed to be taken as a single dose. For some parasites it might need to be repeated in 3 to 12 months.

If a doctor prescribes it to treat a human I'd expect the prescription to be for the right amount of pills for your body weight to deliver that single you-sized dose.

Horse ivermectin is sold in a quantity suitable for a 1250 pound horse.

From what I've read it appears that a lot of people buy that horse-sized single dose and use it all. Worse, a lot of them seem to take it daily.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#52

Post by jimmygrapes »

RattleyCooper wrote: post #29
RobLach wrote: post #21

Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin when the Moderna vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms that require hospitalization, and 99%+ at preventing death? Covid-19 prevention and treatment is basically a solved problem. My limited understanding of other's reality suggests to me that people have connected deeply with a community (through identity poltics or... fun) that is no longer relevant in a p…

>Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin Probably because Ivermectin has gone through the rigorous process of testing/approval required for use in humans, that we haven't had time to do with the vaccine. I mean, it's completely understandable why people would seek out well-tested drugs, that are more predictable due to the scientific scrutiny they've been under, than a vaccine that got rushed into production…

> What's the big issue with looking to well-tested, scientifically-scrutinized medications as possible treatments for people who already have covid?

Well, one word should sum it up: profit

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#53

Post by drdeca »

Cycl0ps wrote: post #18

Would it be unethical to start dosing Ivermectin with the Pfizer vaccine? Sort of like hiding your dog's pills in a rolled up piece of ham. The anti-vaxxers get to think they pulled one over on "them" (whoever that may be this week) and I get to leave the country again. Everyone wins!

Yes, it would be. It would be quickly discovered, and justifiably reduce public trust in whatever organization made that decision, which would likely have more negative consequences down the line.

Also, lies are bad.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#54

Post by p_l »

tzs wrote: post #51
jbotz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ Neither the dosages nor the active ingredients are different. Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. The "active ingredients" are Ivermectin, period. I have a bottle of injectable Ivermectin intended for cattle here, and it says it's pure Ivermectin in propylene…

> Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. I think he might have meant the dosage that it is sold in is different. Ivermectin for treating parasites is typically supposed to be taken as a single dose. For some parasites it might need to be repeated in 3 to 12 months. If a doctor prescribes it to treat a human I'd expect the p…

Yep. Injectable as GP shows can use same carrier, but people aren't using injectable nor do they adjust dosages from what I have seen on the net.

Meanwhile, even if ivermectin worked, it would be secondary to vaccination because you want to prevent as much as early as possible. Should any of those wonder drugs end up working, it wouldn't help ICU capacity much :-(

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#55

Post by panny »

simonh wrote: post #49
jbotz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ Neither the dosages nor the active ingredients are different. Both for humans and for animals, the recommended dose of Ivermectin to treat parasites is 200 micrograms per kilogram of body weight. The "active ingredients" are Ivermectin, period. I have a bottle of injectable Ivermectin intended for cattle here, and it says it's pure Ivermectin in propylene…

They give two reasons that I think are much more than uh, we haven't said it's ok. One is people are getting sick and hospitalised for taking this stuff. The second is, it can have interactions with other medications people might be taking or conditions they might have. Also the stuff you have might be free of non-active ingredients with adverse risks for humans, but other formulations might well contain such ingredi…

The "ivermectin overdoses" story was debunked.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434538877642027015

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#56

Post by simonh »

panny wrote: post #55
simonh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They give two reasons that I think are much more than uh, we haven't said it's ok. One is people are getting sick and hospitalised for taking this stuff. The second is, it can have interactions with other medications people might be taking or conditions they might have. Also the stuff you have might be free of non-active ingredients with adverse risks for humans, but other formulations might well contain such ingredi…

The "ivermectin overdoses" story was debunked. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1434538877642027015

A report has been discredited, but the National Poison Data System states there were 459 reported cases of ivermectin overdose in the United States in August. That's a 245% jump compared to July.

There's a fair bit of exaggeration going on, in both directions. Surprise.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#57

Post by mdp2021 »

p_l wrote: post #9
TheFreim wrote: post #7

> Ivermectin tablets are approved by the FDA to treat people with intestinal strongyloidiasis and onchocerciasis, two conditions caused by parasitic worms. In addition, some topical forms of ivermectin are approved to treat external parasites like head lice and for skin conditions such as rosacea. I wish people would stop making the claim that it's "just a horse dewormer" when even the FDA says it has some uses in hu…

The big problem is that the pills people are obtaining are "just a horse dewormer" . The specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ (drug delivery is frighteningly complex area). Meanwhile people made enough run on ivermectin-based horse dewormer that people had trouble getting it for livestock.

> specification is different, the dosages are different, and the active ingredients differ

I understood a chief issue to discriminate product X₁ for use with humans and product X₂ for use with the rest (livestock) is the quality control in production: the first is certified for some threshold of quality, the second uses more loose parameters.

(I may be wrong, I welcome corrections and clarifications.)

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#58

Post by mdp2021 »

RobLach wrote: post #21

Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin when the Moderna vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms that require hospitalization, and 99%+ at preventing death? Covid-19 prevention and treatment is basically a solved problem. My limited understanding of other's reality suggests to me that people have connected deeply with a community (through identity poltics or... fun) that is no longer relevant in a p…

> Why is anyone seriously talking about [x] when the [y] vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms

They may be reluctant towards the latter product because their goal may be exactly to avoid damages, and they had acquaintances which suffered the potential Severe Adverse Events, which made these SAE a reality to fit properly in their "world model", and they may be confused by a strong clash between the evidence of those acquaintances and some circulating narrative according to which those cases are "anecdotal" (as if irrelevant), plus another which speaks of "safety" in relative terms instead of the closer-to-absolute terms one may intend (B says "safe" for "less dangerous than atrocilinusomethingmazipan", while A with "safe" would intend "substantially non dangerous").

They probably are the kind of people that do not consider the job done until the SAE are explained, including what is to be done to minimize them statistically (as in, "more risky for those with blue eyes") or prevent them. Some people get hurt, so you have to understand why.

Those of them who can reason about risk comparison (and know the risks of the main other option) will have taken precautions (whatever they are: some managed to achieve considerable isolation).

About explanation of the damages, some steps are being done, but it is slower than desirable: on the 9th an article came out about an autoimmune response against ACE2 as a possible cause of long COVID. Maybe something similar will be understood about the exceptional but still consideration worthy sufferers of post-vaccine SAE?

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28486930

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#59

Post by dham »

jleyank wrote: post #46
dham wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a backup plan. While there a lot of drugs being developed for the treatment of Covid-19, it's easier to use a drug that has already been around for a while because the safety profile is pretty much known. Spray and pray drug development led to our most useful drugs we use today and in the past.

Actually, I don’t think there are any drugs developed to fight COVID. Yeah, there are monoclonal antibodies developed from the initial cohort of symptomatic patients, and various anti inflammatories that have been effective in reducing the intensity of a cytokine storm. There are small molecule efforts, but these things take time. There is a delta specific vaccine in initial clinical trials but it’s bloody hard to ge…

I assume everyone was working on treatments. My sibling works at Pfizer as a Sas programmer / manager (mostly cancer trials) and they're working on a study with an old HIV drug.

That's just one small team in a huge company.

Edit: Just got clarification it's PF-07321332. I think it's related to ritonivir? Not super sure

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#60

Post by dham »

hnburnsy wrote: post #39
dham wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like the whole "treatment plan" is only to scare more people into getting vaccines by letting people die. When I had Covid I went to urgent care to get tested. They sent me home with a paper that said I had Covid and told me to take Tylenol. Everyone I know that has contracted Covid has received the same "treatment" no matter the age. This is why some people are dying. Compare that with someone like Trump or…

That stinks. Florida is offering free Monoclonal Antibody Treatments for all... https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/monoclonal-antibody-therapy... >Individuals 12 years and older who are high-risk, that have contracted or been exposed to COVID-19, are eligible for this treatment. Treatment is free and vaccination status does not matter.

I assume I'm not high-risk. One of the people I know that got it was probably considered high risk because he was overweight. Not obese but overweight.
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