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Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

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Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#31

Post by kazinator »

off_sounder wrote: post #24
RobLach wrote: post #21

Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin when the Moderna vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms that require hospitalization, and 99%+ at preventing death? Covid-19 prevention and treatment is basically a solved problem. My limited understanding of other's reality suggests to me that people have connected deeply with a community (through identity poltics or... fun) that is no longer relevant in a p…

I'm skeptical about the efficacy of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine over longer periods of time. I've still not heard a reasonable explanation about why this vaccine is expected to work long-term when the flu shot clearly does not. Especially since SARS-CoV-2 mutates faster than the flu virus. Can anyone give me an explanation of why vaccines are touted for fast-evolving viruses like the flu and SARS-CoV-2?

There cannot be a the vaccine; obviously, SARS-CoV-2 vaccines will have to be updated. People will need boosters.

> I've still not heard a reasonable explanation about why this vaccine is expected to work long-term when the flu shot clearly does not

I don't think anyone in their right mind claims or believes such a thing, or believes that the health authorities are trying to convince them of such a thing. Depending on what we mean by "long term".

> SARS-CoV-2 mutates faster than the flu virus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8137987/

"Compared with other RNA viruses such as HIV and influenza virus, SARS-CoV-2 accumulates mutations much more slowly (15, 28)."

So that would by why you can expect more mileage from SARS-CoV-2 vaccines.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#32

Post by dham »

RobLach wrote: post #21

Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin when the Moderna vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms that require hospitalization, and 99%+ at preventing death? Covid-19 prevention and treatment is basically a solved problem. My limited understanding of other's reality suggests to me that people have connected deeply with a community (through identity poltics or... fun) that is no longer relevant in a p…

We need a backup plan. While there a lot of drugs being developed for the treatment of Covid-19, it's easier to use a drug that has already been around for a while because the safety profile is pretty much known.

Spray and pray drug development led to our most useful drugs we use today and in the past.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#33

Post by jpadkins »

skuhn wrote: post #16
jpadkins wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pretty biased article. Didn't cite the many doctors who are using it in their treatment regimen, Japan Medical Association board member endorsement, or the population studies in India and Africa that show pretty compelling evidence. Also they didn't cover the early treatment vs. late stage when discussing the study results (ivermectin doesn't help people with high viral load already in the ICU, but apparently does he…

The person in Japan who endorsed ivermectin is not a government minister. [1] If you're referring to the Elgazzar paper from Egypt (as the "population studies in [..] Africa"), then it has been withdrawn from pre-print distribution. [2] And, in general, the studies that have been performed are not sufficient to support ivermectin use among the general public at this time. [3] [1] https://factcheck.afp.com/http%253A%2…

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Ozaki is on the JMA Board https://www.med.or.jp/english/about_JMA/trustees.html

The population study I was referring to was this one: http://www.scielo.org.co/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S...

citation 3 is an opinion piece (opinion section of that magazine). And even as a persuasion piece, it still quotes Cochrane on the need for a serious study.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#34

Post by ErikVandeWater »

jowsie wrote: post #30
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize the Covid vaccine is extremely expensive in many parts of the world and not everyone will be vaccinated, correct? It is frightening how people will apply no common sense before attacking any group of people that isn't 100% on board with their solution to a problem.

The FDA website isn't targeting the third world. It's directed at people living in America, where they are able to get the vaccine for free.

And there will be obviously be people in the USA who do not get the vaccine for various reasons who will die if better treatments are not found.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#35

Post by kazinator »

jpadkins wrote: post #33
skuhn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person in Japan who endorsed ivermectin is not a government minister. [1] If you're referring to the Elgazzar paper from Egypt (as the "population studies in [..] Africa"), then it has been withdrawn from pre-print distribution. [2] And, in general, the studies that have been performed are not sufficient to support ivermectin use among the general public at this time. [3] [1] https://factcheck.afp.com/http%253A%2…

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. Ozaki is on the JMA Board https://www.med.or.jp/english/about_JMA/trustees.html The population study I was referring to was this one: http://www.scielo.org.co/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S... citation 3 is an opinion piece (opinion section of that magazine). And even as a persuasion piece, it still quotes Cochrane on the need for a serious study.

The National Geographic article has a point of view. This is evident from its very title "[t]he shaky science behind ivermectin as a COVID-19 cure"; we may expect the content of the article to be biased toward making the case that the hypothesis is shaky.

I posted it not because I care about its point of view, but because it was one of the first items I was able to find quickly which provides a synopsis of what I was looking for: the origins of the ivermectin hypotheses in respect to COVID.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#36

Post by dham »

RattleyCooper wrote: post #29
RobLach wrote: post #21

Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin when the Moderna vaccine is 96%+ effective at preventing symptoms that require hospitalization, and 99%+ at preventing death? Covid-19 prevention and treatment is basically a solved problem. My limited understanding of other's reality suggests to me that people have connected deeply with a community (through identity poltics or... fun) that is no longer relevant in a p…

>Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin Probably because Ivermectin has gone through the rigorous process of testing/approval required for use in humans, that we haven't had time to do with the vaccine. I mean, it's completely understandable why people would seek out well-tested drugs, that are more predictable due to the scientific scrutiny they've been under, than a vaccine that got rushed into production…

It looks like the whole "treatment plan" is only to scare more people into getting vaccines by letting people die.

When I had Covid I went to urgent care to get tested. They sent me home with a paper that said I had Covid and told me to take Tylenol. Everyone I know that has contracted Covid has received the same "treatment" no matter the age. This is why some people are dying.

Compare that with someone like Trump or Joe Rogan. It's not even a money thing, you have to convince doctors to even treat you for this thing. By the time you got to ER Ivermectin (or whatever the antiviral flavor of the month is) or monoclonal antibodies aren't that effective.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#37

Post by timmytokyo »

logicalmonster wrote: post #13

Sick people trying the human doses of Ivermectin should be the easiest risk-management decision in the history of humanity. You have a drug that is safe in human doses, cheap, and reported to have a positive effect. You lose nothing by trying it and gaining more data.

If people are taking Ivermectin instead of a vaccine, then we as a society have a lot to lose. There is no clinically significant evidence that Ivermectin prevents COVID-19 or reduces its severity. Whereas there is abundant evidence that the vaccines do.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#38

Post by betwixthewires »

tl;dr don't do it because we said.

I don't know how effective ivermectin is at treating covid, probably not as effective as people were hoping a couple of months ago if at all. But it has been used in humans for decades and is shown to be very safe when used in proper doses. So what's the problem? False sense of security maybe? I'd rather have a false sense of security than a heart condition.

The vaccines appear to be effective. They appear to be generally safe, in an emergency situation. The side effect rate of these vaccines though would never be approved if this weren't an emergency situation, there is a real danger to them. So if people want to choose which risk they take I don't see a problem.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#39

Post by hnburnsy »

dham wrote: post #36
RattleyCooper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is anyone seriously talking about Ivermectin Probably because Ivermectin has gone through the rigorous process of testing/approval required for use in humans, that we haven't had time to do with the vaccine. I mean, it's completely understandable why people would seek out well-tested drugs, that are more predictable due to the scientific scrutiny they've been under, than a vaccine that got rushed into production…

It looks like the whole "treatment plan" is only to scare more people into getting vaccines by letting people die. When I had Covid I went to urgent care to get tested. They sent me home with a paper that said I had Covid and told me to take Tylenol. Everyone I know that has contracted Covid has received the same "treatment" no matter the age. This is why some people are dying. Compare that with someone like Trump or…

That stinks. Florida is offering free Monoclonal Antibody Treatments for all...

https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/monoclonal-antibody-therapy...

>Individuals 12 years and older who are high-risk, that have contracted or been exposed to COVID-19, are eligible for this treatment. Treatment is free and vaccination status does not matter.

Re: Why You Should Not Use Ivermectin to Treat or Prevent Covid-19

#40

Post by CryptoPunk »

jjeaff wrote: post #8

There are some studies indicating that ivermectin may be helpful in treating covid. But those studies are small, not statistically strong, and not all necessarily trustworthy. There are a few larger, more mainstream studies that don't look too promising. But ivermectin is still a candidate and deserves further study (and there are larger studies underway). All that being said, this whole situation is basically an amp…

>>which is the ability of pharmaceutical companies to advertise directly to the public.

Pharmaceutical companies are not advertising ivermectin directly to the public..

It's off-patent anyway, so there's no profit in it.

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