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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

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Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#51

Post by thinkingemote »

azalemeth wrote: post #44
cstross wrote: post #2

Note this is specific to England . Other countries in the UK are following their own course -- the Scottish government agreed in principle to introduce vaccine passports as of a week ago and will require them for entry to large venues from October 1st: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-passports-requir... The NHS is a fully devolved issue, with separate NHS organizations in Wales, England, Northern Ireland,…

This is very true. I personally find it mad that the UK is the nation with the highest covid infection rate in western europe, with ~30k new cases/day. Long covid is a real, debilitating condition and if anything is going to affect the young -- who are least vaccinated -- the most, thus creating a long-term disease burden and morbidity cost on both those individuals and the country as a whole. Ignoring the human cost…

The country has one of the highest vaccination levels in the world also.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#52

Post by dgellow »

kilroy123 wrote: post #45
tchalla wrote: post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Not to go into a restaurant to eat. Which is what is now being asked in many places.

Well, now we do. At least in Hamburg, Germany. It was very quick to adapt, you flash your QR code and that’s it, we are back to supporting our local restaurants and other businesses we love.

The alternative was to see them close one by one, I’m personally very happy with the way the EU vaccine pass has been implemented.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#53

Post by jowsie »

Aeolun wrote: post #41
White_Wolf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't have the vaccine for the greater good. I had it because, for me, the risk vs reward balance was tilted that way. I have high blood pressure and I'm borderline diabetic. Not much of a choice for me. Why would someone that is healthy risk ending up like that dead BBC presenter and leave their family behind for complete strangers? Who gives you(or anyone) the right to decide what risks they should take and that…

The chances of ending up dead from COVID is higher than the chance of dying from the vaccine for basically everyone right? Even if you’re in your 30’s and in perfect health. I absolutely agree that I’d much rather die from COVID than from the vaccine that is supposed to save me. But logically speaking, choosing to not take the vaccine doesn’t make any kind of sense. It’s like choosing to drive a car because you might…

>The chances of ending up dead from COVID is higher than the chance of dying from the vaccine for basically everyone right?

Your chances of catching COVID aren't 100%, your chances of getting vaccinated are if you choose to do so.

>It’s like choosing to drive a car because you might get hit by lightning if you take a walk.

This argument also works in reverse.

note: I'm double vaccinated and urge others to vaccinate if they are medically able to do so.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#54

Post by Loveaway »

libertine wrote: post #9

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but for some countries - like Portugal where we have +80% of the pop. vaccinated - the main concern are tourists that completely disregard any etiquette or measures in place. So I think keeping passports is a good measure, not perfect due to breakthrough infection…

No it's shit. Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. By now everyone can get it and be protected against the virus. You now have the immunity, so act like it! Stop dragging this out with requiring passports, masks, and whatnot.

The "main concern" aren't tourists - tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed. They come to you to see your culture, and you encumber them with your own burden and fears.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#55

Post by tinus_hn »

dgellow wrote: post #47
tinus_hn wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If vaccinated people can spread the virus, which they can, going to a bar they can also infect and ‘kill’ people. So yes, it’s pretty much the same.

You’re clearly trolling here. The virus is an invisible agent spreading exponentially throughout society, putting the health system under a massive stress. That’s of course not what smoking, drinking, or over-eating is about…

No, these only put the health system under stress that we are used to. Remember that story about that guy in Mississippi who had trouble finding an ICU bed? If you look at the real data it turns out the vast majority of these beds are not in use by people with covid, but by people with other problems, like heart diseases. You know, the problems caused by that lifestyle that’s a-ok because we’re used to the problems it causes.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#56

Post by throwaway316943 »

Aeolun wrote: post #27
tinus_hn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same brand of ‘successes’ can be achieved by banning alcohol, tobacco, fast food or whatever vice you want.

I’m not sure if I would consider the vice of drinking alcohol quite the same as the vice of infecting and potentially killing other people.

Every day 28 people die in the US from drunk driving crashes

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

261 per day from excessive alcohol use

https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/features/excessive-alcohol-death...

Alcohol consumption directly affects people who do not consume it in a multitude of ways from the monetary cost of increased demand on the health care system, police, prisons and damage to public property to the emotional and psychological burden of interacting with the inebriated or dependent to the physical impact of abuse and accidents caused by intoxication.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#57

Post by jvzr »

maxerickson wrote: post #42
martin8412 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That must have been a while ago, because Israel is nowhere near top in vaccination rate anymore. They had a fast rollout, but are now stuck at around 61%.. Meanwhile, western Europe is around 80-90% vaccinated

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA shows more like 60%-70% for the total population (I turned on more countries than France). Are your numbers percent of adults or including people that have recovered from infection or something?

Government numbers in France show 80.2% today ("The figure gives the share of the population over the age of 12 that are fully vaccinated (all required doses")

We crossed 60% on July 29, and 70% on August 20

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#58

Post by tinus_hn »

Aeolun wrote: post #41
White_Wolf wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't have the vaccine for the greater good. I had it because, for me, the risk vs reward balance was tilted that way. I have high blood pressure and I'm borderline diabetic. Not much of a choice for me. Why would someone that is healthy risk ending up like that dead BBC presenter and leave their family behind for complete strangers? Who gives you(or anyone) the right to decide what risks they should take and that…

The chances of ending up dead from COVID is higher than the chance of dying from the vaccine for basically everyone right? Even if you’re in your 30’s and in perfect health. I absolutely agree that I’d much rather die from COVID than from the vaccine that is supposed to save me. But logically speaking, choosing to not take the vaccine doesn’t make any kind of sense. It’s like choosing to drive a car because you might…

It is comparable to the right to refuse treatment, which is in many jurisdictions considered to be a basic civil right.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#59

Post by maxerickson »

jvzr wrote: post #57
maxerickson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=FRA shows more like 60%-70% for the total population (I turned on more countries than France). Are your numbers percent of adults or including people that have recovered from infection or something?

Government numbers in France show 80.2% today ("The figure gives the share of the population over the age of 12 that are fully vaccinated (all required doses") We crossed 60% on July 29, and 70% on August 20

Yeah, "over the age of 12", that isn't 80% fully vaccinated, it's 80% of over 12s fully vaccinated. Which is a useful measure of administrative effectiveness when the vaccine is not being given to people under 12, but it isn't 80% of the total population.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#60

Post by libertine »

Loveaway wrote: post #54
libertine wrote: post #9

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but for some countries - like Portugal where we have +80% of the pop. vaccinated - the main concern are tourists that completely disregard any etiquette or measures in place. So I think keeping passports is a good measure, not perfect due to breakthrough infection…

No it's shit. Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal. By now everyone can get it and be protected against the virus. You now have the immunity, so act like it! Stop dragging this out with requiring passports, masks, and whatnot. The "main concern" aren't tourists - tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed. They come to you to see…

>Just let people decide if they want to get the vaccination or not, and go on with life as normal.

Uh, where did I say that people shouldn't decide? Do you think we got +80% (87% if you factor in single doses), at gun point?

If these passports had an influence on 5 percentual points I was being extremely generous.

It's all about education, being informed, and a sense of duty. Probably the majority where fearful and anxious to do it, but they did it anyway.

> tourists are the lifeblood of many places, and they should be welcomed.

Being welcoming doesn't mean put up with shit, right? Wear a mask and have the vaccine passport at hand, not that hard now is it?

One is a tiny piece of cloth, the other is a tiny piece of digital paper.

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