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Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

nytimes.com

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Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#51

Post by justinko »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all antipsychotics have horrible side effects. Let’s not lose nuance in response to the terrible unethical behavior depicted here. Modern antipsychotics often do good in helping people function when they wouldn’t otherwise be able to. The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the go…

> The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the good that can be done. Modern antipsychotics are useful for conditions beyond schizophrenia. Seroquel is commonly prescribed for insomnia at doses lower than those used for Schizophrenia. Adding Abilify is a common second-line strategy whe…

I’m on Abilify and Vraylar. Makes me feel normal. Love it.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#52

Post by babyshake »

mguerville wrote: post #38

The movie “I care a lot” (fiction) does a good job of showing the incentives issue in elder care. I hope this NYT report will trigger some more oversight and maybe blow a few cases open because the trend it highlights is very concerning.

We see it in education, healthcare, and at work. The path of least resistance is to do what makes things the easiest to manage, not what leads to the best outcomes.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#53

Post by quetzlbazaar »

BingoAhoy wrote: post #32

Phony Diagnoses not just at nursing homes, also in mental facilities. Was really surprised (better word-traumatized) that one flippant casual mention of not valuing my life in a private text message was enough to to get me detained by police in a facility for a night. "Doctor" threatened me with drugging just because I refused to answer some of their questions and instead insisted on a lawyer. Funny how freedoms can…

Suicide is offensive to society and many individuals on a deep level, especially of people who do not have a "good reason" (such as a terminal illness). While it may have progressed beyond being a criminal act, it is still taboo enough for alternative and equally good avenues to exist for society to deal with it, in this case, police and physicians empowered by law with the "duty of care" concept. This is of course better than suicidal intentions being dealt with as criminal, but not as good (in my opinion) as it being dealt with as something that someone has a right to do and therefore cannot have force used against them, but perhaps should be dissuaded from, maybe similarly to abortion.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#54

Post by DylanDmitri »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #33
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all antipsychotics have horrible side effects. Let’s not lose nuance in response to the terrible unethical behavior depicted here. Modern antipsychotics often do good in helping people function when they wouldn’t otherwise be able to. The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the go…

> The illnesses they treat are ones of terror and loneliness. I will note however that there’s no purpose in them here except to force submission, and that’s abuse and spits on the good that can be done. Modern antipsychotics are useful for conditions beyond schizophrenia. Seroquel is commonly prescribed for insomnia at doses lower than those used for Schizophrenia. Adding Abilify is a common second-line strategy whe…

I'm on Abilify. It prevents the nasty mood swings that caused me to lose my first job.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#55

Post by Zhenya »

david-gpu wrote: post #49
koolba wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm terrified of growing old in this country. Have kids, raise them right, and you’ll be fine. It’s worked out pretty well for a couple thousand years.

Kids do not choose to be born. We can't expect them to serve us when we get old. They owe us nothing. We forced them into this world.

Such a nihilistic viewpoint.

Others consider bearing children a gift of life.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#56

Post by tester756 »

wizwit999 wrote: post #9

One of the most disgusting parts of western culture is how they relegate their old to these nursing homes.

did you ever live with mentally ill old person?

It may be incredibly hard to the point that it is even difficult to describe it

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#57

Post by gazzini »

david-gpu wrote: post #49
koolba wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm terrified of growing old in this country. Have kids, raise them right, and you’ll be fine. It’s worked out pretty well for a couple thousand years.

Kids do not choose to be born. We can't expect them to serve us when we get old. They owe us nothing. We forced them into this world.

I think it’s a pretty great idea for people to “have kids, raise them right.”

I’m bullish on that strategy, even if there is no contractual guarantee that those kids will return the favor.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#58

Post by glangdale »

quetzlbazaar wrote: post #17
heavyset_go wrote: post #2

Antipsychotics are not something to be handed out like candy. They have serious, sometimes permanent and sometimes fatal, side effects in anyone of any age. The article notes how that class of medication increases mortality in elderly people in particular. The fact that some people were prescribed haloperidol as the first line of treatment instead of a newer, safer antipsychotics also blows my mind. I'm terrified of…

The solution in my opinion to this problem is to permit euthanasia and for assisted suicide to become culturally accepted as an alternative to a drawn out death of dementia in a care home. The quality of life for many (not all) care home residents who are on these sorts of drug regimens is dire and in reality not entirely for their benefit, as is apparent to everyone including those responsible for oversight like Med…

Speaking from experience, people are not nearly as enthusiastic to make the decision to kill themselves (as dementia sets in) as every likes to imagine that they will be themselves. I have seen multiple cases of people who - in healthy middle age - made bold statements ("just shoot me when I get like that"), who later went on to write documents insisting that "all measures be taken to preserve my life". So not even "just let me die peacefully when it's my time", much less "load me up on opiates and finish me off in a month when I don't know who/where I am anymore".

I don't know why this is, but dementia is often a continuum, and the decision making that people make seems to change in early dementia.

Unless you are proposing that others get to make this executive decision that people with dementias lives aren't worth living, this solution is not practical.

More practical would be to accept that we are far better off over-medicating with pain meds to "keep people comfortable" with the implicit idea that it will shorten their lives. Everyone can pretend we're doing it for pain. Effectively it's like what you said but with some face-saving bullshit where no-one has to admit we're killing grandpa/grandma over the course of a few months. I'd much rather a few months on opiates at the end of my life than a few years on Haldol (JFC). Ugh.

Re: Phony diagnoses hide high rates of drugging at nursing homes

#60

Post by fires10 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #48
tyoma wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is typically true for the elderly who can take care of themselves or require minimal help. Once you need round the clock dementia care, it is more than extended family can provide — unless one or more adults take themselves out of the workforce for years.

They can have professional home care nurses/aides when needed. Sure, that costs money but the nursing home isn't free either.

Nursing homes are often paid by Medicaid. They typically won't pay for long term in home care.
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