Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Nihilism is OK” is not OK

meaningness.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 85 posts

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#51

Post by rgun »

0-_-0 wrote: post #47
causasui wrote: post #14

I generally consider myself a nihilist, but only because it's the very last stop on the bus ride of my failed attempts at religion and other philosophies. I grew up very religious and when I lost my faith in my 20s, I tried to replace it w/ absurdism and existentialism, but couldn't shake the notion that lives deep in me that ultimately, even if humanity spreads across the cosmos and we're able to find meaning in our…

What does the heat death of the universe have to do with meaning? Just to apply reductio ad absurdum to the anti-natalism argument: If there was a virus that would prevent all animals and humans on the planet from reproducing, leading to the quick extinction of all consciousness, would that be a moral good?

It would not be "morally bad". It has just hastened the timeline for everything losing meaning (thousands/millions/billions of years from now -> now).

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#52

Post by rgun »

hug wrote: post #24
causasui wrote: post #14

I generally consider myself a nihilist, but only because it's the very last stop on the bus ride of my failed attempts at religion and other philosophies. I grew up very religious and when I lost my faith in my 20s, I tried to replace it w/ absurdism and existentialism, but couldn't shake the notion that lives deep in me that ultimately, even if humanity spreads across the cosmos and we're able to find meaning in our…

I'm an existentialist, not a nihilist. Not even at my core. I never, really, believed in God despite being the son of a religious couple and the grandfather of a preacher. I don't know that there's a way to escape heat death either, but my answer to that is: So what? I don't see why that should make me a nihilist. Nor do I really see why deciding to try to prevent suffering through veganism should follow from any of…

This is the exact same conclusion I came to from we-cannot-escape-the-heat-death argument. I will just make myself and my loved ones happy (latter because it indirectly makes me happy).

On an unrelated note, is your grandfather a preacher or your grandson?

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#53

Post by me_me_me »

corpo_punisho wrote: post #18
causasui wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or any other philosophy, where nihilism is the absence of either. In other words, religion is wonderful for those for whom it works; the same goes for existentialism (our meaning comes from within) or really literally anything else that gets you through the day. Every morning we wake up and the vast majority of us decide to not jump off a tall building. Why?

For various reasons. But without our individual reason, the alternative is not misery. We can come up with other reasons. Or just do without reason (such as when we satisfy natural drives).

People growing up indoctrinated in a religion are way more prone to having problem with meaning of life.

They grow up having meaning of life, and all the rules to follow to get to the better place. You don't think you just follow.

When you break out of shackles of religion you are faced with reality, you are responsible for finding the meaning, you are responsible for creating rules for your life and to follow them.

Its my pet peeve when I hear 'atheists are just lazy and left the religion because its easier'. When its the opposite. A godless person that understands that concept of god (more precisely any god that people claim exists and talked to them via various means) doesn't make sense, is burdened with all complexity of life without mental shortcuts religion provides.

All that said, de-converting into atheistism doesn't automatically translate into lifelong misery.

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#54

Post by Talanes »

rramadass wrote: post #38
akvadrako wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most commonly accepted morals come down to one thing: they contribute to the survival of that moral. Societies with a moral against killing thrive and spread compared to those without.

What? Patently Wrong!

The societies that dominate others through violence need an even more advanced moral system around killing than those that don't. "Killing is wrong" is enough to get some basic internal stability around, but to start pillaging your neighbors you need a moral code with loopholes.

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#55

Post by me_me_me »

lucky1759 wrote: post #44
gremloni wrote: post #30

Of course nihilism is bad for society but it’s the undeniable truth. Meaning is a made up word. It’s a random cocktail of hormones as a reaction to a story you tell yourself. I don’t even know why people need a “meaning” or purpose to life. Just waking up and existing is incredibly fun.

Most people suffer everyday. Poverty, illness, war.. etc are more common than decadent Western lifestyles. The reason why religiosty is so common among poor countries is because, without religion, the logical conclusion would be to stop existing... Which is exactly the position the West was in pre-renaissance. Without religion society would never have succeeded through ages of negative utility.

I am not sure I can agree to this as an answer.

It feels to reductionistic, humans are complex system and often none rational.

Certainly religions provide utility to the followers, but I wouldn't equate wealth of a country as direct correlation to religiosity.

There are wealthy countries (US, gulf counties) that are largely religious, and smaller poorer (czech rep) countries predominately atheistic.

I think religion is more of an entertainment then meaning of life. in poorer counties there is less things to be occupied with. Thats where you have the festivals and celebrations. Contrast catholics in EU vs South America.

Also religion can be seen as a stop gap solution to education. It provides answers to questions - knowledge (though of varying quality). The higher education the lower interest in religion, for one the science + critical thinking exposes errors and fallacies in religious texts. So religion as a source of knowledge looses appeal in educated populations.

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#56

Post by kongin »

codebolt wrote: post #49
causasui wrote: post #14

I generally consider myself a nihilist, but only because it's the very last stop on the bus ride of my failed attempts at religion and other philosophies. I grew up very religious and when I lost my faith in my 20s, I tried to replace it w/ absurdism and existentialism, but couldn't shake the notion that lives deep in me that ultimately, even if humanity spreads across the cosmos and we're able to find meaning in our…

> I grew up very religious and when I lost my faith in my 20s, I tried to replace it w/ absurdism and existentialism, but couldn't shake the notion that lives deep in me that ultimately, even if humanity spreads across the cosmos and we're able to find meaning in our own individual existences, the universe will inevitably suffer heat death, from which there is no eternalistic escape. Seems that this view of human exi…

>For one, it seems to me you have to basically reject all of relativistic physics if you want to maintain a perspective on the universe where only the present moment exists. This is because the relativity of simultaneity tells us that there is no such thing as a universal present moment. How can only a single moment exist when there is no such thing as a single moment?

Humans do extremely poorly in relativistic environments because we tend to become expanding clouds of atoms at the energies needed to make relativity relevant to every day experience.

At the energies we can survive at a universal time is an extremely good approximation to your daily experience.

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#57

Post by kongin »

0-_-0 wrote: post #47
causasui wrote: post #14

I generally consider myself a nihilist, but only because it's the very last stop on the bus ride of my failed attempts at religion and other philosophies. I grew up very religious and when I lost my faith in my 20s, I tried to replace it w/ absurdism and existentialism, but couldn't shake the notion that lives deep in me that ultimately, even if humanity spreads across the cosmos and we're able to find meaning in our…

What does the heat death of the universe have to do with meaning? Just to apply reductio ad absurdum to the anti-natalism argument: If there was a virus that would prevent all animals and humans on the planet from reproducing, leading to the quick extinction of all consciousness, would that be a moral good?

If it caused no other harm yes. Because you would still get to live a long life, just not inflict it on someone else.

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#58

Post by 0-_-0 »

kongin wrote: post #57
0-_-0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the heat death of the universe have to do with meaning? Just to apply reductio ad absurdum to the anti-natalism argument: If there was a virus that would prevent all animals and humans on the planet from reproducing, leading to the quick extinction of all consciousness, would that be a moral good?

If it caused no other harm yes. Because you would still get to live a long life, just not inflict it on someone else.

Why is living bad? Would you rather not live right now?

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#59

Post by codebolt »

kongin wrote: post #56
codebolt wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I grew up very religious and when I lost my faith in my 20s, I tried to replace it w/ absurdism and existentialism, but couldn't shake the notion that lives deep in me that ultimately, even if humanity spreads across the cosmos and we're able to find meaning in our own individual existences, the universe will inevitably suffer heat death, from which there is no eternalistic escape. Seems that this view of human exi…

>For one, it seems to me you have to basically reject all of relativistic physics if you want to maintain a perspective on the universe where only the present moment exists. This is because the relativity of simultaneity tells us that there is no such thing as a universal present moment. How can only a single moment exist when there is no such thing as a single moment? Humans do extremely poorly in relativistic envir…

Yes, but regardless of their relevance to our daily lives, Einstein's equations do have strong implications about the basic structure of the universe. And that structure is fundamentally not compatible with ontological presentism.

Re: “Nihilism is OK” is not OK

#60

Post by 0-_-0 »

rgun wrote: post #51
0-_-0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the heat death of the universe have to do with meaning? Just to apply reductio ad absurdum to the anti-natalism argument: If there was a virus that would prevent all animals and humans on the planet from reproducing, leading to the quick extinction of all consciousness, would that be a moral good?

It would not be "morally bad". It has just hastened the timeline for everything losing meaning (thousands/millions/billions of years from now -> now).

If meaning is good, then wouldn't losing meaning be bad?
Post reply on HN