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Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

virginiamercury.com

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Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#51

Post by corty »

PietdeVries wrote: post #50
corty wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not exponentially, it is still just a power law. But I agree that taxes should be damage-based. Tax those lorries to hell, if they want lower taxes, they should buy one with more axles and more tires per axle.

I would assume they would just raise their prices. Like with shipping containers from China to the rest of the world - prices increased tenfold...

Yes of course. But some will be more competitve by having less weigth-per-axle. So after one replacement-generation of trucks, roads will be in better shape because trucks are less prone to damage them on average. And in general, trucking goods needs to be more expensive anyways to make less pollution transport options like ships and trains more competitive.

Consumers can also be made whole by removing vehicle taxes on cars or subsidizing other modes of transport that consumers use from those trucking price increases.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#52

Post by jefftk »

throaway46546 wrote: post #31
jefftk wrote: post #8

The general idea of charging road users partly in proportion to miles traveled makes a lot of sense. But why, every time this is proposed, do people talk about fancy tracking mechanisms? Why can't we just use odometers? I mean, yes, the odometer cannot measure how much of your mileage is in Virginia versus other states, or how much is on what kinds of roads, but it is so much cheaper to implement that I would expect…

I have an old car and I can just unplug the speed sensor and the odometer stops turning.

Ok, but that's already illegal (since we need accurate mileage for used car sales)

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#53

Post by refurb »

rocqua wrote: post #44
refurb wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Externality? Who do you think is bringing you food and all the items you buy? Even locally? The Grenadier Guard?

Currently the complete cost of shipping food includes road damage that is not priced into shipping but instead borne by all citizens. By making those responsible for road damage, pay for it, they have an economic incentive to stop the damage.

Not priced into shipping, but equally borne by all tax payers. If all tax payers benefit through transportation of food and other essentials, that’s not really an externality? The people paying are the ones who benefit?

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#54

Post by belltaco »

tappaseater wrote: post #47
cascom wrote: post #21

Rant: Whenever I read the words “pay their fair share” when it comes to tax I stop reading, it’s clear the author doesn’t think for themselves. The goal posts of what is fair are so arbitrary/subjective as to have no meaning when it come to taxes. Just say what is happening, one group (rightly or wrongly) wants another group to bear more of the burden for paying for something.

In my town, when a few of us got rooftop solar, some homes reduced their electric bills significantly, in some cases, to less than zero, so the Light Dept said (publically in meetings) we weren't paying our fair share. The real issue was a threat of loss of revenue. It is fair to ask homes that pay nothing, always pay something, but the term "fair share" is inaccurate and emotive.

Why don't you fully cite what they said? The issue is that maintenance of the grid also has costs. So if everyone hovers on net zero(or even pumping electricity back to the grid), who pays the cost for maintaining the electric lines and the salaries of people who work on managing the grid? The grid will go down with no repairs. Money doesn't grow on trees.

That's what they mean by fair share, the homes are still connected to the grid, and can use it with their rooftop solar doesn't generate enough power, but they pay nothing or close to nothing when an electric line needs repair, their nonsolar neighbors pay it for them. I don't know if 'not paying the fair share' or 'freeloading' are the right terms, what would you call that situation? If the distribution fee is bothering people, why don't they disconnect the grid and pay nothing?

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#55

Post by nradov »

swiley wrote: post #46
luxuryballs wrote: post #36

Is it just me or does a classic tolls based program seem a lot more fair and less convoluted?

Just raise the fuel tax. Tolls create traffic problems and I’m very careful to avoid them because of that.

Higher fuel taxes can be part of the solution in the short to medium term but will become less effective over time as the fleet gradually transitions to BEVs.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#56

Post by IdoRA »

jefftk wrote: post #8

The general idea of charging road users partly in proportion to miles traveled makes a lot of sense. But why, every time this is proposed, do people talk about fancy tracking mechanisms? Why can't we just use odometers? I mean, yes, the odometer cannot measure how much of your mileage is in Virginia versus other states, or how much is on what kinds of roads, but it is so much cheaper to implement that I would expect…

A lot of people in the NOVA area are commuting to DC/MD and vice versa. It seems like you’d need to be able to fairly exclude resident out of state driving for the proposal to be viable?

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#57

Post by jefftk »

IdoRA wrote: post #56
jefftk wrote: post #8

The general idea of charging road users partly in proportion to miles traveled makes a lot of sense. But why, every time this is proposed, do people talk about fancy tracking mechanisms? Why can't we just use odometers? I mean, yes, the odometer cannot measure how much of your mileage is in Virginia versus other states, or how much is on what kinds of roads, but it is so much cheaper to implement that I would expect…

A lot of people in the NOVA area are commuting to DC/MD and vice versa. It seems like you’d need to be able to fairly exclude resident out of state driving for the proposal to be viable?

Why? We don't do that with the gas tax.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#58

Post by throaway46546 »

jefftk wrote: post #52
throaway46546 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an old car and I can just unplug the speed sensor and the odometer stops turning.

Ok, but that's already illegal (since we need accurate mileage for used car sales)

Yes, but people break the law all the time.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#59

Post by guiltygods »

jefftk wrote: post #8

The general idea of charging road users partly in proportion to miles traveled makes a lot of sense. But why, every time this is proposed, do people talk about fancy tracking mechanisms? Why can't we just use odometers? I mean, yes, the odometer cannot measure how much of your mileage is in Virginia versus other states, or how much is on what kinds of roads, but it is so much cheaper to implement that I would expect…

You need location info in addition to distance since roads and infrastructure are owned and maintained by various agencies. The solution could be to build upon EZPASS. Have the EZPass readers in every signboard or lamppost along the highways. They can read and record distance travelled along a particular highway so that revenue can be attributed to appropriate agency.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#60

Post by jefftk »

jefftk wrote: post #52
throaway46546 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an old car and I can just unplug the speed sensor and the odometer stops turning.

Ok, but that's already illegal (since we need accurate mileage for used car sales)

Having your odometer connected costs ~$1k/y in depreciation, and people don't generally disconnect it. Do you think they'll start for the opportunity to save an additional $100/y?
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