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Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

virginiamercury.com

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Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#41

Post by collegeburner »

cfn wrote: post #25
jefftk wrote: post #8

The general idea of charging road users partly in proportion to miles traveled makes a lot of sense. But why, every time this is proposed, do people talk about fancy tracking mechanisms? Why can't we just use odometers? I mean, yes, the odometer cannot measure how much of your mileage is in Virginia versus other states, or how much is on what kinds of roads, but it is so much cheaper to implement that I would expect…

Big trucks use odometers to enforce driver regulations and there is a whole semi-hidden market for tools and fixes that disable the odometers, even electronic ones. Menaing, they are easy to interfere with. I still agree with the other's posters that tracking is conveniently useful for other things.

This is like people who argue that tax fraud and money laundering justify banning cash to leave only trackable means of transaction. Tampering with an odometer is illegal and though some people will defraud that doesn't justify another step towards a surveillance state.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#42

Post by dtech »

refurb wrote: post #38
snakeboy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't this be a good economic incentive to buy more locally? Since it sounds like currently shipping costs via trucking are ignoring this externality.

Externality? Who do you think is bringing you food and all the items you buy? Even locally? The Grenadier Guard?

A truck damaging the road dis-proportionally is an economic externality [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#43

Post by Zenst »

Whilst the initiative is good, in practice the real impact will be upon those who need a car due to location or health reasons. So their merge mileage will be just as impacted per mile as those who do excess mileage and gets down to those that can pay, pay for it.

Equally this takes into no account, how heavy the vechile is, or indeed how impacting enviromentally it is. It add's no incentive at all, and equally, a light small efficient vehicle will be less impacting upon road upkeep than a heavy HGV.

Now - what I feel is needed is a quota system in which you get a mileage quota and if you go over that, you pay per extra mile.

What are the impacts beyond this - well, this does lay down the foundation to make roads in effect virtual toll-roads and that may well for good or bad, may well incentive private roads now a consumer base has been more conditioned to paying for usage of a road.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#44

Post by rocqua »

refurb wrote: post #38
snakeboy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't this be a good economic incentive to buy more locally? Since it sounds like currently shipping costs via trucking are ignoring this externality.

Externality? Who do you think is bringing you food and all the items you buy? Even locally? The Grenadier Guard?

Currently the complete cost of shipping food includes road damage that is not priced into shipping but instead borne by all citizens. By making those responsible for road damage, pay for it, they have an economic incentive to stop the damage.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#45

Post by dtech »

jefftk wrote: post #8

The general idea of charging road users partly in proportion to miles traveled makes a lot of sense. But why, every time this is proposed, do people talk about fancy tracking mechanisms? Why can't we just use odometers? I mean, yes, the odometer cannot measure how much of your mileage is in Virginia versus other states, or how much is on what kinds of roads, but it is so much cheaper to implement that I would expect…

That is already done on a large scale, through gas tax. However, it doesn't differentiate much between locations or vehicle types.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#47

Post by tappaseater »

cascom wrote: post #21

Rant: Whenever I read the words “pay their fair share” when it comes to tax I stop reading, it’s clear the author doesn’t think for themselves. The goal posts of what is fair are so arbitrary/subjective as to have no meaning when it come to taxes. Just say what is happening, one group (rightly or wrongly) wants another group to bear more of the burden for paying for something.

In my town, when a few of us got rooftop solar, some homes reduced their electric bills significantly, in some cases, to less than zero, so the Light Dept said (publically in meetings) we weren't paying our fair share. The real issue was a threat of loss of revenue. It is fair to ask homes that pay nothing, always pay something, but the term "fair share" is inaccurate and emotive.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#48

Post by tappaseater »

luxuryballs wrote: post #36

Is it just me or does a classic tolls based program seem a lot more fair and less convoluted?

That was my first thought. I bet most in VA have EZPass. I am sure it's because they're scared shitless of losing the tax revenues, and want to collect on every road, which doesn't work well with the transponder approach.

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#49

Post by PietdeVries »

choeger wrote: post #17
pdkl95 wrote: post #3

> The goal for the revamped funding system, which also includes a higher gas tax rate and lower baseline vehicle registration fees, is to make sure drivers contribute their fair share to the costs of maintaining the roads they use The "fair share" most small cars - especially fuel efficiency focused designs that remove as much mass as possible - should be paying approximately $0 . Road damage per-axel is proportional…

This. It's nuts to build infrastructure and then punish its use. Overuse or non-propertional damage should be punished, of course. Infrastructure costs should be divided by its users (or society as a whole) and then users should be encouraged to maximize utilisation. Imagine someone would do this to bike lanes, railroads, or optical fiber. The facts that gasoline cars are a problem for the climate and that cars take…

No - the use of gasoline does not impact the cost of the road. But it can be used to persuade people to use the bike lane next to it. People are amazingly sensitive to costs - check for instance tax benefits. As soon as a product is subsidized by means of a tax rule, people run as fast as they can to get it. Hybrid and now electric cars are a great example (at least in the Netherlands). By having people pay by the mile instead of whether they own a car or now, usage is more evenly charged. You drive a lot? You pay a lot. Even nicer would be to add a charge to the gas prices: your car uses a lot? You pay a lot. But it seems that the gap between buying gas at the pump and riding your car is too wide: people will get a guzzling car regardless. But if you know that every mile you pay 10 cents..? I guess it will get people out of the car very, very quick...

Re: Virginia maps out optional per-mile road fee program for 2022 launch

#50

Post by PietdeVries »

corty wrote: post #4
pdkl95 wrote: post #3

> The goal for the revamped funding system, which also includes a higher gas tax rate and lower baseline vehicle registration fees, is to make sure drivers contribute their fair share to the costs of maintaining the roads they use The "fair share" most small cars - especially fuel efficiency focused designs that remove as much mass as possible - should be paying approximately $0 . Road damage per-axel is proportional…

Well, not exponentially, it is still just a power law. But I agree that taxes should be damage-based. Tax those lorries to hell, if they want lower taxes, they should buy one with more axles and more tires per axle.

I would assume they would just raise their prices. Like with shipping containers from China to the rest of the world - prices increased tenfold...
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