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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#51

Post by theptip »

cleansingfire wrote: post #26
bpodgursky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, in the context of commercial supplements being 10-30x the "correct dose" the significant point is that the commercial doses are stupidly high for anyone. People needing +/- 50% of the dose isn't the important part here.

No, some people need more than the commercial supplements provide. That's the point. The effective range varies by an order of magnitude. The author denies the actual variety of human needs.

3mg is not the correct starting dose. If you need to adjust up, fine, but for most people that won’t be required. Starting too high and adjusting down is not the correct approach (a general rule, not just for this drug).

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#52

Post by nullify88 »

warent wrote: post #48

I've had this experience lately of waking up around 3 or 4 AM and having a hard time falling back asleep for 30 mins or so. Nothing catastrophic, but a bit annoying. To address this, I've tried a couple of different things to help sleep: melatonin; and valerian root extract. The valerian root worked great, until one night it gave me the worst sleep paralysis night terror of all time. Sleep paralysis is nothing new to…

How much valerian did you take? I often drink Celestial Sleepytime Extra, that contains 25mg in each teabag.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#53

Post by yosito »

lamontcg wrote: post #4

> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fall asleep within half an hour, sleep a full night, and wake up feeling refreshed. If I use a larger dose, I sleep even less well than I would without a supplement.

I suggest to anyone who is taking 1mg or larger doses to experiment with a "microdose" of 0.2mg and see how it affects you.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#54

Post by warent »

nullify88 wrote: post #52
warent wrote: post #48

I've had this experience lately of waking up around 3 or 4 AM and having a hard time falling back asleep for 30 mins or so. Nothing catastrophic, but a bit annoying. To address this, I've tried a couple of different things to help sleep: melatonin; and valerian root extract. The valerian root worked great, until one night it gave me the worst sleep paralysis night terror of all time. Sleep paralysis is nothing new to…

How much valerian did you take? I often drink Celestial Sleepytime Extra, that contains 25mg in each teabag.

To be fair, it was way too much. Something like 4x the recommended amount. My reasoning was "more valerian means more sleepy" couldn't have been more wrong. 25mg teabag is probably like 10% what I was at.

I still enjoy valerian if it's in tea. Just not in a pill supplement form anymore.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#55

Post by yosito »

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fall asleep within half an hour, sleep a full night, and wake up feeling refreshed. If I use a larger dose, I sleep even less well than I would without a supplement.

I suggest to anyone who is taking 1mg or larger doses to experiment with a "microdose" of 0.2mg and see how it affects you.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#56

Post by [deleted] »

Aerroon wrote: post #16
createunderrate wrote: post #12

Melatonin helped me with my sleep a bit, but never a lot. What did help is much brighter light during the day (on a timer, so the lighting would become dark in the evening) and adding to the basically-useless blue-light filters on my devices some automatic timed screen brightness changes. I used to have circadian rhythm disorders. The most common pattern for me was the pattern of delayed sleep-wake disorder i.e. nigh…

I've been wondering about lighting brightness for a while now. Lighting still leaves rooms kind of dark - not even as bright as they look like with daylight, let alone the sun shining through the window. In nature the sun wouldn't be shining through a window either - it would be all around you. Should we perhaps get brighter lighting overall? Would that help with sleep issues? Eyesight?

[deleted]

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#57

Post by joelrunyon »

yosito wrote: post #55

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fa…

It's referenced in the article - https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/86/10/4727/2849013

In general - I'm surprised people take melatonin so casually without realizing that it's a hormone - not a mineral or amino acid like other sleep aids - https://impossible.co/blogs/health/melatonin-side-effects

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#58

Post by nostromo »

yosito wrote: post #55

Melatonin is not like a sleeping pill where more will necessarily make you more drowsy. It is a hormone that signals to your body that it is time to sleep. I can't find it right now, but there was a study of different doses in a large number of people that determined that just 0.2mg was more effective than larger doses for most people. And I've found that's true for me too. When I use melatonin, I use 0.2mg, and I fa…

The best melatonin pills would be both chewable and small dosage, but unfortunately they are hard to find. I suspect manufacturers have a hard time selling smaller doses because people think they’re getting a superior product with larger doses.

Personally I settled for a 500mcg chewable dose that I split in half with a pill splitter.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#59

Post by hutzlibu »

etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #36

Hmmph... I'm taking 20mg most nights. One 10mg at bedtime, then another 5 hours later if I wake up again. Even that isn't enough to really put me to sleep if I'm stressed out. For me, "more is more" seems to be true...

Others pointed out, that melantonin is not the right thing, if your are stressed out. It is just a signal to the body to maybe go to sleep. Convincing your mind to let go, is still your job. (or take another drug) But maybe find a night ritual, that helps with that.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2018)

#60

Post by atkailash »

lamontcg wrote: post #4

> the correct dose A single correct dose is a myth. The author even sort of notes that with the differences between teenagers, 25 year olds and the elderly. There's also a wide variety of sleep disorders which are touched on in the article. I've suffered with 2.5mg before for long enough to understand that it doesn't work for me, no matter how many studies you have with 95% CL that the dose is much lower. The 5mg tab…

I’ve never thought about if it was maybe too much. I have such a weird response with melatonin. I either wake up in the middle of the night, or feel sleepy all day, both, or neither. I’m sure it’s circumstantial but I can’t pinpoint it. More often than not though the next day I still just feel off, even if I didn’t wake up in the middle of the night
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