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How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#51

Post by technoslut »

delackner wrote: post #28
technoslut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think that Americans are more deserving of products being produced here. I've always felt (maybe others do not) that you give back something to where you grew up or the society you are apart of. I see it no different in this case. Sony has done the same in Japan and I respect them more for it. There are great benefits to the US market and many, such as Apple, have taken advantage of it. They also take advantage…

Wait, what? Sony has mostly abandoned their Japanese production of Televisions. They are made in China. Maybe you're thinking of Sharp?

Sony still keeps a majority of their factories in Japan.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#52

Post by naner »

berntb wrote: post #38
naner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As bad as a 3rd world outsourced job is to us 1st worlder's it's still generally BETTER than what they would have otherwise. In fact Apple and other 'outsourcers' are the one and only reason for the breath-taking trend line that is China's per capita growth This always seemed like a bullshit argument to me. So it is marginally better to work 16 hour days in terrible conditions while dumping chemicals in local groundw…

>>Well, it turns out that overworking people and polluting is still bad behaviour. I usually give this link at this point. http://www.slate.com/id/1918/ Krugman discuss, well, why you are a judging hypocr.. cough, a bit harsh. :-) Edit: Let me put it this way. A millennia ago, my ancestors made today's Afghanistan look like a cosy and peaceful place. Now, it is a bit different -- a welfare state where there haven't b…

I've read this before. I supposed I just have a hard time with the idea that doing harmful things is long-term beneficial.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#53

Post by technoslut »

delackner wrote: post #27
technoslut wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the 'superficially patriotic' remark, at least in regards to Americans. I believe that after seeing the effect of all these manufacturing jobs being closed down, many would opt to pay a higher price knowing that it would save jobs. I don't necessarily blame companies for these emotional ties. There was a time when those ties really meant something.

In this case "many" means a minority. The majority have voted with their dollars over the past several decades and overwhelmingly chosen products that are manufactured wherever is cheapest.

It really is only four decades and I meant for today's American consumer in retrospect. Today's consumer doesn't have a choice. It is rare to find a product that hasn't been outsourced for labor.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#54

Post by berntb »

naner wrote: post #52
berntb wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Well, it turns out that overworking people and polluting is still bad behaviour. I usually give this link at this point. http://www.slate.com/id/1918/ Krugman discuss, well, why you are a judging hypocr.. cough, a bit harsh. :-) Edit: Let me put it this way. A millennia ago, my ancestors made today's Afghanistan look like a cosy and peaceful place. Now, it is a bit different -- a welfare state where there haven't b…

I've read this before. I supposed I just have a hard time with the idea that doing harmful things is long-term beneficial.

>>I just have a hard time with the idea that doing harmful things is long-term beneficial.

I come from a protestant culture; we have problems believing that fun things can be beneficial. :-)

Krugman argued -- many of those things aren't harmful, given the situation the local people are in.

Instead of complaining about something that will be fixed automatically given good governance, work for good governance... Another of my standard links:

http://reason.com/archives/2006/03/01/why-poor-countries-are...

(Me? I am doing good by educating activists about the real problems. :-) )

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#55

Post by curt »

cageface wrote: post #26
curt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the laws themselves (with some exceptions) but the paperwork required to comply. For example Singapore has many of the same laws as the US but they really focus on streamlining the bureaucracy so it's not as heavy a burden.

How specifically do they go about this? Bureaucracy is notoriously resistant to streamlining. Does having a more authoritarian government make this easier?

No, they hire the best and brightest to work for the government and hold them accountable. Something western governments refuse to do with government workers usually because of union/civil service work rules.

But what ends up happening then is that Singapore for example actively works to import entrepreneurs because their best and brightest went into government.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#56

Post by diogenescynic »

sneak wrote: post #49
diogenescynic wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interesting hypothetical scenario is one where Apple had all iPhones assembled in the US. Assuming that the wage of American workers is ten times as high as those of their Chinese counterparts, the total assembly cost would rise to $68 and total manufacturing cost would be pushed to approximately $240. Selling iPhones assembled by American workers at $500 per unit would still leave a 50% profit margin for Apple. I…

Except that in the USA it's probably illegal to fire workers who won't work 16 hour days and it's also illegal to expose workers to toxic solvents. OSHA and the associated regulations legislated us right out of the market.

>Except that in the USA it's probably illegal to fire workers who won't work 16 hour days and it's also illegal to expose workers to toxic solvents.

Wait, you think this is bad?

Do you really think America can only compete on being the lowest cost manufacturer?

And the scenario shows, the iPhone could be manufactured in the US and still be profitable (50% margin).

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#57

Post by delackner »

technoslut wrote: post #51
delackner wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? Sony has mostly abandoned their Japanese production of Televisions. They are made in China. Maybe you're thinking of Sharp?

Sony still keeps a majority of their factories in Japan.

You are right, Sony manufactures a lot of things in Japan. But it also manufactures many things (including high end televisions and some of its game consoles) in China. They are quite coy about disclosing what percentage, so I don't know where you have read the majority come from Japan.

Re: How Apple conquered China and learned to think like the Communist Party.

#58

Post by jackfoxy »

jackfoxy wrote: post #11
wallflower wrote: post #4

If you have not read "What is China", read it after: http://www.tapsns.com/blog/index.php/2010/01/what-is-china/

Would really like folks who down-voted you to explain themselves. The fact China (and Russia) are the only supports of North Korea says everything you need to know about the essence of the rulers of both countries.

http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-new-generation/
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