The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU • Hacker News Board

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#51

Post by js2 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #22

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

There are really bad things with the current system, but you asked a question. People are exposed on a regular basis to the DMV, the SBA, to Social Security or to Medicare. Then they compare that experience with the avg experience with a commercial insurer, and it does feel like a better experience (of course, if their employer can afford it) Worse, there are stories of friends in places like CAN, where insider docto…

> People are exposed on a regular basis to the DMV, the SBA, to Social Security or to Medicare. Then they compare that experience with the avg experience with a commercial insurer, and it does feel like a better experience (of course, if their employer can afford it)

That’s not what surveys show:

> Americans' satisfaction with the way the healthcare system works for them varies by the type of insurance they have. Satisfaction is highest among those with veterans or military health insurance, Medicare and Medicaid, and is lower among those with employer-paid and self-paid insurance. Americans with no health insurance are least satisfied of all.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-hea...

CMS also publishes assessments of its own performance:

https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Res...

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#52

Post by rakmos » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

This hits home for me.. my son (now 4 years old) was born very premature at 29 weeks and some change. He spent 7 weeks and 4 days in the NICU. The total hospital bill that was charged to insurance (before settling it between themselves) was roughly 960_000$.

If you include the additional services and whatnot in the few months following being discharged from the hospital he was a million dollar baby.

Complete insanity frankly.. few things make my blood boil more than the sad state of health insurance in the US. Sure, it has gotten better since the ACA… but there is soo much more that needs to change.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#53

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #7

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

The people who are against universal healthcare usually pitch it as an argument for "choice", as if I'm going to compare prices when I have a ruptured appendix. It's also usually couched in anti-government sentiment, where they draw comparisons to "lines at the DMV", as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care, something that also doesn't happen.

[deleted]

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#54

Post by avianlyric » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

yerwhat01010 wrote: post #19

minikites wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who are against universal healthcare usually pitch it as an argument for "choice", as if I'm going to compare prices when I have a ruptured appendix. It's also usually couched in anti-government sentiment, where they draw comparisons to "lines at the DMV", as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care, something that also doesn't happen.

> as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care This absolutely does happen in the UK, although I'd pick our health over the US's any day of the week.

It's also worth mentioning that private health care and insurance both exist in the UK.

Individuals still get the choice to go to any private doctor they want, they'll just have to pay for it themselves. Just like the US, except the NHS provides an excellent safety net for everyone without private insurance or the means to pay for private care.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#55

Post by IG_Semmelweiss » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #36

chadash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a percentage copay, say 10%, they will tell you to pay $25k because it's 10%, but they might only pay $75k. In this example you clearly paid 25% but they tell you it's only 10%. I think this is coinsurance, not copay. Copay is the $50 (or whatever) flat fee you pay every time you see a specialist. Coinsurance is a percentage of costs that you share with the insurance company, up to some maximum out of p…

Thanks I edited my comment to say it's called coinsurance. But the point is the same, and in my experience it is not always based on the final negotiated amount actually paid to the healthcare provider.

its probably because EOBs are convoluted but that's most certainly not what you saw, because what you claim to have seen would be very serious fraud.

Medical billing is not to be messed with.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#56

Post by xienze » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

> I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US.

Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. I’m in tech. Combined HHI is something in the $200s. I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. So in a worst case scenario, let’s say healthcare costs me $9K per year. That’s what, 4% of my HHI? Will a universal healthcare plan hit me via taxes for 4% or less? Fat fucking chance. And again, we’re not even talking about quality of care, just price.

In the end, the poor will benefit greatly, the rich will carry on as usual, and people in the middle will get squeezed to death.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#57

Post by intsunny » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #8

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

Single payer healthcare systems in Europe were introduced a long time ago. Back then, politics was different, not least because of an imminent threat of the Soviet Bloc just around the corner and a need to answer it by "carrot", too, not just "stick". They are now status quo, but in another version of history, where such systems would have to be introduced today , I am not certain whether they could clear the politic…

As an American who immigrated to Europe four years ago, I disagree that modern-Europe would not be able to recreate their healthcare systems under today's polticial climate.

Ironically it is because of the USA that many Europeans are keenly aware of the davistating consequences of allowing for a hyper-capitalistic approach to healthcare. People here often assume the worst about that system, and are completely bewildered when I tell them how it actually works. (Especially in regards to having children, parental leave, and childc care.)

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#58

Post by failuser » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

$8k deductible might be reasonable if $250k bills are the norm. It is not spoken out loud a lot (more during COVID), but the people who are against universal healthcare are likely pro high birth rate and survival of the fittest (unless they have money, of course).

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#59

Post by iamadog1029 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

jsmith99 wrote: post #4

5k on sildenafil citrate? That's better known as Viagra.

$1400 for cholecalciferate - aka Vitamin D-3 $700 for sterile water

I don't comprehend how charges like that are even remotely feasible for anything other than the deferal of liability from the hospital to the mfg., who charges a premium. But I suppose that goes under the liability insurance domain.

But that's only half of the story. Billing is a negotiation process between the practitioners or their institution and the insurance providers, so naturally the hospital is going to wring every penny out that they can which means they'll "charge" you $500 for a $10 bag of saline, and leave you at the mercy of wolves.

Just another perverted feedback loop, the insurance industry is so well established that it's become necessity, and treatment is made expensive by insurance, and will presumably continue in that direction because of its huge inertia.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#60

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #22

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

There are really bad things with the current system, but you asked a question. People are exposed on a regular basis to the DMV, the SBA, to Social Security or to Medicare. Then they compare that experience with the avg experience with a commercial insurer, and it does feel like a better experience (of course, if their employer can afford it) Worse, there are stories of friends in places like CAN, where insider docto…

> People are exposed on a regular basis to the DMV, the SBA, to Social Security or to Medicare. Then they compare that experience with the avg experience with a commercial insurer, and it does feel like a better experience (of course, if their employer can afford it)

This probably varies regionally.

My local - upstate NY - DMV is quick, efficient, and the folks there are pleasant and competent.

My private health insurer hasn't been able to fix my website login for four years, routinely denies care for chronic conditions, and fulfills most of the nasty stereotypes about government bureaucracies.