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America's “Friendscape” Crisis

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Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#51

Post by ethbr0 »

ben_w wrote: post #38
pantalaimon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unfortunately only true for old (100+ years) buildings, most newer developments don't have commercial space in the ground floor.

Anecdotally it feels like it should be more complex than that, as two of the three whose construction I’ve watched to completion since I moved here have ground floor commercial space.

I thought about mixed use (commercial on first, residential above) when I wrote my previous, and left it out, because it seems like a nuanced subject.

In that "Community spaces" is a subset of "businesses an owner leasing commercial space would rent to."

I don't think we're talking about a Subway sandwich shop on the ground floor being helpful.

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#52

Post by ethbr0 »

addicted wrote: post #48
kiba wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our policies are mostly geared around creating never-ending strip malls, endless suburban neighborhoods, and omnipresent traffic issues. Because these things most efficiently create tax revenue, happy "what my parents had" families, and income segregated areas. I doubt that they are most efficient at generating tax revenue, especially when considering density and infrastructure maintenance.

They are definitely significantly worse at generating tax revenue. Mixed housing along with ground level commercial spaces even in the poorest of downtown districts generate more tax revenue. The problem is when crime and other forms of blight lead to people not living or working in those places anymore.

It's a tricky argument to say they're better at generating tax revenue, if only people changed their habits and preferences... ;)

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#53

Post by acwan93 »

Ajay-p wrote: post #39

Social media has given us the illusion of unlimited choice and availability in our social lives. It's like a drug that makes you think the world is at your doorstep, when in reality it's the complete opposite. The single greatest thing a person can do to improve their social life is to delete their social media accounts.

I can't find the video or link, but Aziz Ansari talked about this in either his book "Master of None" or one of his sketches.

He basically boils it down to we're becoming more non-committal because we think something better is going to come, whether its the better brunch, the better gathering, the better toothbrush (he specifically cites this example) so we can all post it on social media. It results in all of us being miserable and unable to foster undivided attention.

The best thing you can do really is to not opt-in.

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#54

Post by cowboysauce »

The article cites research that shows that the percentage of Americans with 10+ close friends have dropped from 33 to 13 percent since 1990. I wonder how much of that can be attributed to a change is what is considered a close friend? Just keeping in touch with other people used to be much more difficult and I wonder if the proliferation of cell phones and then smartphones has raised the bar. I wonder if friendship changed from just needing to keep in touch to having to directly support each other's emotional needs.

Personally, I can't imagine having that many close friends (and how many more non-close friends do you have?). To me it seems like it would require an almost obsessive level of effort to maintain, like to the extent that it's basically the only thing you do outside of work. Which I suppose would have been easier without the internet to distract you, but still.

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#55

Post by xg15 »

Footkerchief wrote: post #13

Personally, I'm convinced that parasocial relationships are outcompeting social relationships. You can risk your ego putting yourself out there in real life, or you can let a recommendation algorithm serve you content that gives you the feeling of being seen and understood without requiring any reciprocal vulnerability on your part.

The problem is that it's just that - the feeling of being seen and understood - the whole point is that there is no actual interaction with you. Depending on your life situation, you can keep up the delusion for quite a while and be happy with it (like the guy who happened an anime character) - things get problematic once you require some actual understanding and life advice.

Even in interactive context, things are treacherous. Sure, you can have this online community who totally get you, who you can talk to about anything and get back compassion, support and useful advice - but do you have any idea who those people actually are, what their life situations are, what values they have and what views they are basing that advice on?

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#56

Post by cuddlybacon »

I think the places where the friendships are the hardest all tend to be guess cultures[0]. That isn't exactly surprising to me. Guess culture should make creating friendships much harder. If you may only ask if someone wants to hangout until you are very sure they'll say yes, then you'll very rarely ask for that. You'd need circumstances with long periods of being 'stuck' together to make a friend. Thus you'd expect people to disproportionately from work or school.

As someone who believes in the Moral Foundations Theory, I don't think it's an accident that the places that are known for low friendships tend to be culturally liberal places. Since most probably don't know what Moral Foundations Theory is, a quick and dirty version is that all moral judgement can be reduced to the following core values (or moral foundations) which I copied from Wikipedia:

* Care: cherishing and protecting others; opposite of harm

* Fairness or proportionality: rendering justice according to shared rules; opposite of cheating

* Loyalty or ingroup: standing with your group, family, nation; opposite of betrayal

* Authority or respect: submitting to tradition and legitimate authority; opposite of subversion

* Sanctity or purity: abhorrence for disgusting things, foods, actions; opposite of degradation

I'm also a fan of the tentatively accepted liberty vs oppression foundation. I really think it should be renamed to something like agency vs domination. Anyways, it would value being able to make decision on choices deemed important and rejecting those who coerce others.

Anyways, culturally liberal places pick care vs harm as their primary value and in some cases have made it the default choice for answering moral issues. I think this naturally leads to guess culture. You get told as a child, frequently, that saying "no" can hurt the askers feelings. You learn to feel bad for saying "no", since it violates care vs harm. You realize that the person you are about to ask a question to is going to feel bad if they say "no". Making them feel bad would be harm, so asking would be harm... unless you can figure out if they'd say yes. That's how I think a guess culture would develop.

The reason I bring up moral foundations at all is I believe the solution is in the last 3 foundations: loyalty, authority, and purity. Those 3 are characterized as the group-ish ones. They are what separate acquaintances from friends, neighbourhoods from communities, and coworkers from a team.

[0] - https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-...

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#57

Post by cuddlybacon »

pixl97 wrote: post #50
cuddlybacon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think parasocial relationships have mostly been an attempt to fill the gap left by the lack of real friendships.

Why not both? The hyperreal is a hard landscape to navigate.

I put 'mostly' and not 'entirely' because I do think it is both.

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#58

Post by tolbish »

cuddlybacon wrote: post #44
Footkerchief wrote: post #13

Personally, I'm convinced that parasocial relationships are outcompeting social relationships. You can risk your ego putting yourself out there in real life, or you can let a recommendation algorithm serve you content that gives you the feeling of being seen and understood without requiring any reciprocal vulnerability on your part.

I think parasocial relationships have mostly been an attempt to fill the gap left by the lack of real friendships.

Much like junk food being a substitute for a lack of real nutrition, what happens when the desire for real nutrition atrophies?

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#59

Post by ethbr0 »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #23
ethbr0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal read is that a huge amount of that in the last decade or so has been a consequence of basement central bank rates. When vast sums of institutional money are freed and chasing yield, eventually some of it leaks into residential property. And when a market that was precariously balanced with only retail buyers (due to density opposition and building economics) now has equal or more investors pile in? Well,…

If we lower them we have no homes, if we raise them we have no jobs. The fact of the matter is conventional central banking is a failure, as is widespread private homeownership in metropolitan areas.

Well, conventional central banking usually has the goals of "prevent another Great Depression" and "keep inflation under control."

In that respect, they've been fairly successful.

The side effects are... less good. But worse than a national depression? Eh.

Re: America's “Friendscape” Crisis

#60

Post by supertrope »

nine_zeros wrote: post #30

Upper middle class in America is unique. They have EVERYTHING that humanity can provide. They have access and ability to do anything. Yet, they are all stuck in the never ending rat race. The excessive focus on the rat race leads to less energy and time left for friendships. The little time that is left is left only for superficial acquaintances. You know, the kind where people talk to each other like a sitcom. Every…

"What do you do?" is the default question for a stranger. Formal paid work is your identity in America. Even leisure activities are usually orientated around consumption and status signaling.
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