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Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

pharmaceutical-journal.com

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Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#51

Post by _Microft »

chessmiater wrote: post #30
ggm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many doses worldwide, how many reported incidents. It's that simple. If you think some at-scale public disaster is impending, Can you explain what you think it is, beyond skepticism it might exist and we're not adequately cautious?

It's not that simple. Lead poisoning for example takes years to manifest itself. So did other drugs which took years until regulators retracted them because they did more harm then good. Specifically about mRNA vaccines, we know little about the long term effects of the lipid nano particles used in them and there are reasons to be concerned.

As far as I remember there were never serious adverse effects that did not appear within a few weeks of administration of a vaccine. The mRNA technology is conceptually even a lot simpler than other ways of vaccination. What are you exactly afraid about?

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#52

Post by mattigames »

flocial wrote: post #19
drukenemo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I’m not addressing the article , but the comment above and many others on this topic. I’m still surprised by the blank check this community generally gives to big pharma and governments, seeing their track records. It’s not that I expect an anti (COVID-19) vaccine attitude, but I would have expected to see here a more questioning tone more regularly, as I see how strongly voiced HN can be with other topics. Fo…

The vaccine is now a political issue just like mask wearing and lockdowns or any other aspect of this pandemic. Rational discussions that deviate from the accepted narrative are attacked and suppressed even on HN. Apparently experimental mRNA vaccines, censorship, violation of civil liberties, and other transgressions are fair game during a “pandemic”.

Rational discussions are created by speaking only with calm rational arguments, instead of inflammatory discourse such as putting the word pandemic between quotes, implying that 4 million deaths by a virus are not enough to be considered a pandemic.

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#53

Post by chessmiater »

adrianN wrote: post #45
chessmiater wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Lead poisoning for example takes years to manifest itself. So did other drugs which took years until regulators retracted them because they did more harm then good. Specifically about mRNA vaccines, we know little about the long term effects of the lipid nano particles used in them and there are reasons to be concerned.

What are the reasons to be concerned? To me as a layman the mechanism of action seems very straightforward and not at all concerning.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-delivery/Without-li...

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20210315/Research-look...

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#54

Post by chessmiater »

_Microft wrote: post #51
chessmiater wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Lead poisoning for example takes years to manifest itself. So did other drugs which took years until regulators retracted them because they did more harm then good. Specifically about mRNA vaccines, we know little about the long term effects of the lipid nano particles used in them and there are reasons to be concerned.

As far as I remember there were never serious adverse effects that did not appear within a few weeks of administration of a vaccine. The mRNA technology is conceptually even a lot simpler than other ways of vaccination. What are you exactly afraid about?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7941620/

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#55

Post by _Microft »

chessmiater wrote: post #54
_Microft wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I remember there were never serious adverse effects that did not appear within a few weeks of administration of a vaccine. The mRNA technology is conceptually even a lot simpler than other ways of vaccination. What are you exactly afraid about?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7941620/

You were alluding to long term effects.

With hundreds of millions of people having received mRNA vaccines by now, we most likely have seen all the short term side effects that there are, except the rarest of them. I would not worry too much about these either.

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#56

Post by jacquesm »

ggm wrote: post #2

Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines Which can be found by the authors. But, for the ones we can't find any information which actually we're all fascinated in, like Sputnik or the Chinese vaccines, or the Cuban vaccine, bupkes. Oddly, nothing about Johnson & Johnson, the only single dose design I know about. Absence of information leads to presence of .. assumptions. Like, "they're all bad" which is fa…

I think this covers 'Janssen':

https://pharmaceutical-journal.com/article/feature/everythin...

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#57

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

ghoward wrote: post #44
zarzavat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid has long term effects too, seemingly much more than vaccines. Were this not the case then yes the calculus for younger people would be very different. But it seems that everybody benefits.

You can only make that judgment for yourself. Assuming that your judgment works for everyone is highly presumptuous. For myself, I see less risk in going the route where I may not even get COVID at all and risk actually getting it, rather than having a 100% chance of injecting myself with a vaccine that I don't trust.

I don't know how you you calculated that risk, but right now the numbers are so overwhelmingly in favor of the vaccines that even with a 1% chance of getting COVID-19 getting the vaccine you don't trust is safer than getting the virus you should trust even less. And unless you live in one of the few countries that have contained COVID-19 (for now), the chance of getting COVID-19 is a lot higher than that.

If you've already had COVID-19 you could argue the numbers become less clear.

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#58

Post by adrianN »

chessmiater wrote: post #53
adrianN wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the reasons to be concerned? To me as a layman the mechanism of action seems very straightforward and not at all concerning.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-delivery/Without-li... https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20210315/Research-look...

Thanks! So the main concern seems to be autoimmune disease?

> Overall, the robust inflammatory milieu induced by LNPs, combined with presentation of the vaccine-derived peptides/protein outside of antigen-presenting cells, might cause tissue damage and exacerbate side effects. Since self-antigen presentation in an inflammatory environment has been linked to autoimmune disease development (Charles A Janeway et al., 2001), this merits further investigation, albeit not detected here.

Because short term inflammation is, as far as I know, not a big deal and somewhat desirable for vaccinations? It is my understanding that we intentionally mix in inflammatory substances ("adjuvants") with normal vaccines to kick the immune system into action?

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#59

Post by mindslight »

swader999 wrote: post #47
mindslight wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think Equifax, LexisNexis, criminal background checks, person-search websites, and automated account termination are? "Social credit" only seems like some foreign concept because it was coined describing a foreign society - it's more difficult to look inwards at what already exists.

You don't have to do those for day to day living, attending school, getting on a plane, most employment, entering a grocery store, a pub or daycare for your kid. These will have to be scanned to work and will be able to be turned off. USA seems to be slow rolling towards it but look at France and UK just this week. Life ending fines, 6 month jail time if you enter one of these places without it. No exemptions for tho…

Three of your own examples (day to day living, attending school, most employment) actually do require subjecting yourself to control by the systems I listed. Furthermore, all of the examples you listed make you subject to observation.

The only way to be able to escape this is to be independently wealthy, which with the way our economy is designed is only ever possible for a minority of people. I agree that vaccine requirements are part of ever-creeping totalitarian control, regardless of apparent prudence, but to frame it as some sort of not-yet-here watershed moment is either uninformed or disingenuous.

Re: Everything you need to know about Covid-19 vaccines

#60

Post by fsh »

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #42
NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I was curious to check : Pfizer-BioNTech $19.50 per dose Moderna $25-$37 per dose AstraZeneca $3-4 (U.S.) in the UK and U.S Johnson & Johnson $10 per dose Sputnik V Vaccine $10 per dose Sinovac Biotech $60 per dose in China ($29.75 per dose) https://www.biospace.com/article/comparing-covid-19-vaccines...

Interesting enough testes are ranging from £50-250 and usually u need few, even self-test kits have similar range. I wonder is there a way to have a really cheap tests (£3-5) ? I guess it would be interesting to find out PCR test cost break down.

Rapid antigen test kits have reached retail prices well below 1€ now. They probably cost cents to produce.

I guess a significant factor in the cost of PCR tests are the thermocyclers and the lab staff. Not nearly as easy to scale as rapid test kits.

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