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Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

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Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every 16+ year old in the Bay Area has had access to a vaccine for 6 weeks.

People have still been putting it off. And it still takes a few weeks for full immunity to kick in.

Also, anyone that is vaccinated can still 'catch Covid' and potentially pass it on to family members that are not yet able to be vaccinated.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#52
post #5

"One worker’s company “had everyone come into the office for an outdoor luncheon a week ago,” according to a post" Some of the stuff companies do truly baffles me. It's only the beginning of June, you can't really assume your whole team is fully vaccinated. Why would you bring everyone in for lunch and then send them home? All downside and near-zero upside. It'd be another matter if it was a full day event where you…

Vaccines have been readily available to anyone who wants them (in the US) since mid April, even in the highest demand parts of the country. If you are not vaccinated, at this point, there is no excuse. (edit: obviously, I’m assuming the article is talking about a company in the US, since the article is about the US .)

I'll paraphrase the reply I put under a post that's about to also get buried in a flurry of downvotes:

Seattle area has had access since mid-April, and I drove 90 minutes to get that shot as early as I could. I hit full vaccination status on Monday of this week, so no outdoor lunches for me last week. But math is hard, amirite?

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side is that if remote work is absolutely the same, then offshoring and outsourcing are also. Why have your employees work remotely in a city 100 miles from their original office at 80-90% of the cost when you can have them be 1000 miles from the office at 30-40% of the cost. If you find employees in Central and South America they would also be in the same timezone.

We just have twenty years of experience that any initial cost savings generated by outsourcing are illusory and come due with interest on the back end.

I agree that has been the case but I don't think it is a certainty that it will continue to tbe the case. Certainly many immigrant workers in IT do good work and are well paid. Why could they not do the same thing from their home country?

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#54

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

Just wait for the mass exodus.

Remote work is turning out to be a requirement for hiring people. So once the company starts bleeding (good) people who find remote jobs with other companies, they are going to be difficult/impossible to replace.

At some point, the execs will have to suck it up and offer remote work.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#55

I'm firmly in camp "office time sounds wonderful" because I live alone, and as it turns out, not having any humans nearby is downright depressing. I'm also somewhat introverted (weird, right?) and while I was living with other people, I desired quite the opposite; staying at home was much less distracting than being in the chaos of a shared space most days. So which do I prefer? Ehh, it depends. I'm not planning to l…

Sounds like... you want some office time and probably some "non-office" work time, and that you'd want that to be at least partially under your control (both now and long term). And you probably recognize the benefits in having people have a (large) degree of autonomy in how they do their work. There are some things which are better done face to face, in person, and some things where... working solo (in surroundings of your choice) can allow one to be more productive.

IMO, there's no one "right" answer on this issue beyond "more autonomy", and I suspect we'll see more contractors/freelancers in Coworking spaces and more WFH arrangements to accommodate that, even if it's not touted publicly much.

It's somehow fine to have a group of people you've never met work in India, and they can get their work done OK, but you can't do the same thing from 15 miles away from your main office? Just insane.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#56

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

On point 4, I think this is where co-working spaces have a moment to shine. A fully remote environment that you still get to leave the house to go to and no impact on how the rest of the team live their lives.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side is that if remote work is absolutely the same, then offshoring and outsourcing are also. Why have your employees work remotely in a city 100 miles from their original office at 80-90% of the cost when you can have them be 1000 miles from the office at 30-40% of the cost. If you find employees in Central and South America they would also be in the same timezone.

We just have twenty years of experience that any initial cost savings generated by outsourcing are illusory and come due with interest on the back end.

Depends what you're outsourcing. We outsourced manufacturing and those cost savings were certainly not illusory.

A lot of communications type work suffered from outsourcing due to language barriers and poor connectivity and poorer skillset from workers in other areas of the world (or even the US). That may not always continue to be the case.

I'm guessing the top 10% or 20% of workers do not need to be worried since they can provide so much value that outsourcing is not worth it. But if you're in the bottom 4 quintiles, I would be wary.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#59

One worker complained that the manager “wanted butts in seats because we couldn’t be trusted to [work from home] even though we’d been doing it since last March,” adding: “I’m giving my notice on Monday.” I've seen this with my current employer. Their message has been that going forward at some point, "Working remotely is not an option." There's really no reason I can't work from home. I've been doing it since March…

I've been doing remote contract work since I became a digital nomad in 2018. Before the pandemic it was absolutely a minority of companies that were comfortable with the concept. A lot of them from the Basecamp school of thinking.

Since the pandemic kicked off, this has changed. Despite the fact that there are many employers out there trying to force everybody back into the office, there is also a large pool of companies that have realised the wheels didn't fall off during the pandemic.

I've been speaking to a lot of current and ex-colleagues in the tech industry. Both on the management and on the employee side. Even the managers are increasing looking at where they're going to work from long term. Realising that they really can move to cheaper cities (in Europe), possibly with better weather, and keep working just the same.

I think there will be a bit of tension this year, but I can't see it just going back to the way it was previously. So many of the previous objections are just obviously false now. In a lot of cases I've seen teams become more productive (not to mention happier), because they're not sitting in an office.

I've seen the faces of most of their kids and pets now, and it turns out that's pretty cool as well.

That BBC host was a real trendsetter :D

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#60

One worker complained that the manager “wanted butts in seats because we couldn’t be trusted to [work from home] even though we’d been doing it since last March,” adding: “I’m giving my notice on Monday.” I've seen this with my current employer. Their message has been that going forward at some point, "Working remotely is not an option." There's really no reason I can't work from home. I've been doing it since March…

If you can't trust your people in an office you have a hiring process problem or the leader needs therapy, not an office space problem.
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