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Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

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Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#51

Post by bredren »

sosborn wrote: post #36
bredren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. I walk my cat on a leash (am on a walk now) and he is the first cat I’ve not allowed outside on his own. Cat walking and the belief you’ve espoused is extremely decisive, but not for the reason you’ve said. Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal, because…

> I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/hisc/info/invasive-species-profiles/...

Thanks for this. I suspect that much of the idea of “outdoor” cats as a thing has to do with tolerance of feral cat populations to begin with.

Whereas wild dogs are too large and aggressive to tolerate.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#52

Post by nessus42 »

NanoCoaster wrote: post #44
bredren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard this many times but do not know enough to say how big of a problem it is ecologically. I walk my cat on a leash (am on a walk now) and he is the first cat I’ve not allowed outside on his own. Cat walking and the belief you’ve espoused is extremely decisive, but not for the reason you’ve said. Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal, because…

> Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal, because they will make time to monitor it. I would never be able to walk my cat on a leash. No chance at all. I got her from a shelter and she's around 10-11 years of age (nobody quite knows, actually), I strongly suspect she's been without an owner for at least a few years. Meaning, she's a loner in general,…

> So, I wait for her to return, sometimes until pretty late at night, because I don't want her to have to be outside for the night.

I've bell-trained cats that I've owned. I.e., I ring a bell every time before I give them a treat. When I've wanted them to come indoors, I ring the bell, and they've always come running.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#53

Post by andrei_says_ »

sammalloy wrote: post #8

> There is a famous story along these lines told for the first time by the German biologists Ernst Haeckel and Carl Vogt. As the story goes, the fortunes of England would seem to depend on cats. By nourishing themselves on mice, cats increase the chances of survival of bumblebees, which, in turn, pollinate shamrocks, which then nourish the beef cows that provide the meat to nourish British sailors, thus permitting th…

The universe in a teacup touched me deeply. Changes how I look at the world.

Thank you for sharing this story.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#54

Post by twobitshifter »

nessus42 wrote: post #41
twobitshifter wrote: post #21

Today no one would chose an introduced species like cats as an example of symbiosis. Outdoor cats are an invasive species which are destroying the native bird populations, and as a result the larger food chain. They are a huge problem for ecosystems.

> Outdoor cats are an invasive species which are destroying the native bird populations This is certainly true for feral cats, but I'm highly skeptical about this claim being true for owned indoor/outdoor cats.

You’re right that it’s much worse for feral cats, but pets are also a problem. Here’s a good study that tracked house cats specifically https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/world/pet-cats-disrupt-wildli...

> On average, the study found that house cats killed anywhere between 14.2 to 38.9 prey per 100 acres, per year. That averages out to about 3.5 prey each month per cat. The researchers believe this large number is due to the fact that neighborhoods can include a high density of cats -- more so than wild predators living in the wild.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#55

Post by ordu »

MathematicalArt wrote: post #40
jbrot wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim “you’ve only got time to read a few thousand books” surprised me, but some back of the napkin math strongly supports it. Assuming it takes a week to read a book and 70 years of literacy only gives you time for around 3500 books. A more avid reader might average, say, 3 books a week—-but then you only get to around 10,000 books. Now, a monk might be able to read 30 books in a week and get to 100,000, but pra…

I recommend “How to Read a Book” by Mortimer Adler. In short, not every sentence, paragraph, chapter, or even book is of equal informative importance. To read all literature as if everything is equally important is really a mistake. Once one recognizes this, it is then ideal to read only at the level of detail and focus as is required for the particular work. What does it mean to have read a book? To read every singl…

> What does it mean to have read a book? To read every single word and symbol? To understand the key ideas and points?

To understand what the author thought at the time, what he was trying to say, what he had said really, how he came to his ideas, ... One cannot predict what he'll find in a book before book will be finished. You cannot know what you do not know. The only way is to read it through.

Sometimes I read books twice in a row. From the title to the last page. With all the "thanks", with the contents section, even leafing through a section of literature. Because you never know what you might find.

When I need just key ideas from a book I could find them in internet, because someone have them written in her blog. It would take, probably, 10 minutes to read, and why to bother myself with the book?

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#56

Post by yw3410 »

twobitshifter wrote: post #54
nessus42 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outdoor cats are an invasive species which are destroying the native bird populations This is certainly true for feral cats, but I'm highly skeptical about this claim being true for owned indoor/outdoor cats.

You’re right that it’s much worse for feral cats, but pets are also a problem. Here’s a good study that tracked house cats specifically https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/world/pet-cats-disrupt-wildli... > On average, the study found that house cats killed anywhere between 14.2 to 38.9 prey per 100 acres, per year. That averages out to about 3.5 prey each month per cat. The researchers believe this large number is due to…

The RSPB in the UK found no evidence of cats causing the decline and attributes it to a decline in habitat.

[1] https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-...

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#57

Post by jfk13 »

bredren wrote: post #50
nessus42 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Letting your cat roam free is a tacit acknowledgment that one doesn’t really care that much for the animal This is untrue. I've owned both indoor cats and indoor/outdoor cats. Anyone who has seen the joy that a cat experiences while outdoors would never claim that a cat owner who wants their cat to experience this joy, "doesn't really care that much for the animal". Maybe an outdoor cat will live a shorter life tha…

You are right that my phrasing was incorrect. I have rephrased this with more context in a reply to a sibling comment. I think you should reconsider harness training. It is normal for the cat to “act dead” at first and it takes time to get them used to a leash. Like months. But once they associate the harness with trips outside, the cat can have many of the experiences of “outdoor” cats without the territorial disput…

The "outdoor experiences" my cats enjoy are not experiences they could have on a leash.

Yes, they sometimes kill things; most commonly mice and shrews. The local rodent population seems resilient enough to cope.

But the joy Catastrophe takes in racing up his favourite tree to look out over the neighbourhood, and chasing his tail around its branches, would rapidly end in a tangled mess if I tried to harness him.

He's devoted and affectionate, strongly bonded with his humans. He also relishes his freedom, and I won't take it away from him.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#58

Post by trhway »

>Mice, argues Darwin, are among the principal enemies of bumblebees. They eat their larvae and destroy their nests. On the other hand, as everyone knows, mice are the favorite prey of cats. One consequence of this is that, in proximity to those villages with the most cats, one finds fewer mice and more bumblebees.

the same with birds - rats are able to eat eggs, so having a bunch of cats on a farm/village naturally results in having a booming bird population.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#59

Post by nessus42 »

twobitshifter wrote: post #54
nessus42 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Outdoor cats are an invasive species which are destroying the native bird populations This is certainly true for feral cats, but I'm highly skeptical about this claim being true for owned indoor/outdoor cats.

You’re right that it’s much worse for feral cats, but pets are also a problem. Here’s a good study that tracked house cats specifically https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/world/pet-cats-disrupt-wildli... > On average, the study found that house cats killed anywhere between 14.2 to 38.9 prey per 100 acres, per year. That averages out to about 3.5 prey each month per cat. The researchers believe this large number is due to…

"Prey". Well that's a pretty generic term. Perhaps much of this "prey" are the mice that are a danger to bumblebees.

Re: Why bumblebees love cats and other beautiful relationships

#60

Post by bori5 »

quesera wrote: post #26
sammalloy wrote: post #8

> There is a famous story along these lines told for the first time by the German biologists Ernst Haeckel and Carl Vogt. As the story goes, the fortunes of England would seem to depend on cats. By nourishing themselves on mice, cats increase the chances of survival of bumblebees, which, in turn, pollinate shamrocks, which then nourish the beef cows that provide the meat to nourish British sailors, thus permitting th…

And similarly: For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the rider was lost. For want of a rider the message was lost. For want of a message the battle was lost. For want of a battle the kingdom was lost. And all for the want of a horseshoe nail. This formulation appears to be at least a few hundred years old. Antecedents are recorded back to the 1300s. https://e…

I first heard this on a Todd Rundgren DVD https://youtu.be/luHRsRWSdoU
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