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gemini:// space

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Re: gemini:// space

#51

Post by contravariant »

mlyle wrote: post #18
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heuristics might work for longer text where the sample is large enough to uniquely identify the language, but for single words there is not enough information. If I write "coin" in my text, for example, am I using an English word, French word, or Irish word? The pronunciation varies drastically, and screenreaders have to know what to say.

Humans need to know what to read, though, too, right? Obviously humans are a bit better at contextual clues, but.. the information has to be there for a human user to make the distinction.

Well if 'readable by a human' would be enough for screen readers then we wouldn't have to worry about accessibility surely?

Re: gemini:// space

#52

Post by jayphen »

robryk wrote: post #48
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12

I really like the idea of having a more bare-bones text-only web, but I can't get onboard with Gemini until it offers the same support for screenreaders as HTML. (For example, an equivalent of span lang=XX tags is missing, so if you quote a foreign-language word(s) in your text, you can't let screenreaders know what language to read it in). The visually impaired should not be second-class citizens in any new internet…

This is first I'm hearing about the lang attribute (edit: for something smaller than the whole document), so I'm curious how commonly is it used in the "web at large". Do you know?

It’s very common to use it on the HTML element, less common to use it on elements further down the tree. Like many accessibility features of the web, it’s often neglected by developers.

Re: gemini:// space

#53

Post by b3kart »

prepperdev wrote: post #3

Gemini is a cool piece of simple tech. I had a genuine pleasure reading the spec: https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.html I've entertained an idea to build a set of tools for contemporary development (version control, code review, CI, etc) which would only speak Gemini. That would be both the UI and the API. Blockers came fast: * no way to upload anything that exceeds 1024 bytes, * escaping is subtly…

That’s just not the kind of use-case the protocol has been designed for. Think “documents”, not “tools”.

Re: gemini:// space

#54

Post by h_anna_h »

rakoo wrote: post #42
h_anna_h wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not buy it. Just use gemini:// rather than https:// to refer to that specific subset of https + html. Maybe also add a header to the server response that says x-gemini: true or whatever. > It's difficult or even impossible to deactivate support for all the unwanted features in mainstream browsers Just do not use mainstream browsers then. Make your own like you do for gemini. They address it a bit later with: > W…

gemini isn't trying to reinvent the web, to make it P2P or serverless or whatever; it's just reusing the ideas of gopher and the web but going in another direction. It doesn't try to replace the web. From this point of view it makes total sense to reuse TCP, TLS and DNS, because they're not trying to replace them. > Maybe also add a header to the server response that says x-gemini: true or whatever. That would requir…

> gemini isn't trying to reinvent the web

> It doesn't try to replace the web

This is what they claim, yes.

> From this point of view it makes total sense to reuse TCP, TLS and DNS, because they're not trying to replace them

I do not understand this point. Wanting to replace the web is irrelevant to using better and simpler protocols.

> That would require adding headers

Treat any server that contains extra headers as invalid gemini then.

> which means extension is possible

Extension is possible regardless, even on gemini. I can set my mime to text/gemini-2 and add all kinds of stuff in it.

> Moreover HTTP is just HTTP, Gemini is transfer + encryption + client identification

HTTP might just be HTTP, https however..

Re: gemini:// space

#56

Post by eternalban »

michaelanckaert wrote: post #50

I've been diving head first into the Gemini space this weekend and discovered some really great content. It takes me back to web of the early 2000's where you had websites with manually curated content (webrings! link rolls!) instead of corporate milked content aggregators. Combined with my love for minimalistic websites (hello http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ ) I find Gemini a perfect small web to enjoy. I've even s…

> discovered some really great content.

I just downloaded Lagrange and ended up here: gemini://cbrews.xyz/literature/the-castle-of-otranto.gmi

It does remind of early web surfing(my ref is 90s).

Re: gemini:// space

#57

Post by jl6 »

senkora wrote: post #13
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12

I really like the idea of having a more bare-bones text-only web, but I can't get onboard with Gemini until it offers the same support for screenreaders as HTML. (For example, an equivalent of span lang=XX tags is missing, so if you quote a foreign-language word(s) in your text, you can't let screenreaders know what language to read it in). The visually impaired should not be second-class citizens in any new internet…

I would argue that that complexity should be handled by the screenreader through heuristics rather than the .gemini format itself, based on the desire to keep basic clients very simple (~100 loc). But that’s a really good point!

Gemini does support a `lang` parameter to its mime types, which can be used to indicate a document is in a mixture of languages. That could be enough of a hint for a client to tune its pronunciation.

I do agree though that this is a far bigger problem space than HTML's `lang` attribute is capable of solving. It's not like knowing the language of the text always tells you the unique pronunciation of a string of characters.

Re: gemini:// space

#58

Post by michaelanckaert »

eternalban wrote: post #56
michaelanckaert wrote: post #50

I've been diving head first into the Gemini space this weekend and discovered some really great content. It takes me back to web of the early 2000's where you had websites with manually curated content (webrings! link rolls!) instead of corporate milked content aggregators. Combined with my love for minimalistic websites (hello http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ ) I find Gemini a perfect small web to enjoy. I've even s…

> discovered some really great content. I just downloaded Lagrange and ended up here: gemini://cbrews.xyz/literature/the-castle-of-otranto.gmi It does remind of early web surfing(my ref is 90s).

Thanks for the nice link :)

Re: gemini:// space

#59

Post by h_anna_h »

knowledge-clay wrote: post #34

Gemini is fantastic. For anyone interested in experimenting with it without setting up a server, I've been working on a simple Gemini site builder that works over HTTP and serves the content via Gemini and HTTP proxy: https://flounder.online/ In my view, Gemini's bare-bones text format is its killer feature. Non-technical users have been able to easily write Gemtext based on a few examples and a bit of experimentatio…

> No other "alt web" technology approaches the internet with such extreme and radical skepticism

Except hypercore/dat, ipfs, freenet, tor, i2p, gnunet, ...

Re: gemini:// space

#60

Post by knorker »

StavrosK wrote: post #45
microtherion wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My go to anecdote on this is when I returned to Switzerland after several years in the US and walked by a bakery displaying a sign advertising a "Pain Surprise". If anybody ever opens an S&M themed bakery, the problem will be accentuated.

Oh that bakery has a gimmick where they throw a loaf of bread at your face when you enter.

Spoiler! :-(

Now it won't be a surprise.

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