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Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

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Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#51

Great. This is the one that has to be kept ultra cold. Hoping for good news about some of the other vaccines in Phase 3 trials soon. The vaccine reportedly needs to be held in storage at -94° Fahrenheit (-70°c), and will last for only 24 hours at refrigerated temps between 35.6° and 46.4°. (about 2° to 8° c) from https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-moderna-s-...

While it's a minor logistical challenge, it's simple enough to ship this in a liquid nitrogen dewar. Even very small cities will have liquid nitrogen facilities. Shipping from the nearest city to most of the population sounds very doable in 24 hours. Remember you only need to get most of the population to halt the spread. If there's some tiny village 3 days hike away in the rainforest, you can skip them.

Shipping hundreds of thousands of doses of vaccine at -80C is more than a “minor logistical challenge”. First, you’d never ship in a liquid nitrogen dewar. It would be a massive logistics bottleneck considering the weight of dewars and the volume you'd be shipping (Pfizer already has deals secured for hundreds of millions of doses). And plus, these are packaged vaccines - a glass vial with a label, in a paper box, with a folded product info sheet inside. You can't submerge the whole thing in liquid nitrogen.

Shipping at -10C is a major logistical challenge. Mentally it doesn't sound like like much, but that's envisioning a single vial to a single patient. Multiply that by one million and deliveries to not only NYC but to Booneville, Louisiana. Temperature excursions mean spoiled product - product that gets thrown out. -80C is way harder than -20C (there are no vaccines today that require -80C).

You can’t just throw it on dry ice and say “we’re good”. Even just packing it is complicated. You have a pallet sized box with 20,000 doses. You put it in a box and surround it with dry ice. Are all the vials the same temperature after 2 hours? Are you sure? You need temperature monitoring at multiple points in the package so you know when it’s been spoiled.

Your delivery gets held up for 12 hours at customs, are all the vials still -80C? Are you sure? What do you do when you deliver to hospital and find out they don’t have -80C storage, even though they said they did? Do you have an intermediary storage facility you can bring it to until you figure out a solution?

Do you have monitoring after it’s been delivered so it doesn’t spoil before administration? Correct thawing procedures? What happens if a dose is thawed and the patient doesn’t show up and it sits at room temp for an hour? Just throw it out? Or is it still good? Are you sure?

And to add on top of all this - you (as the manufacturer) might have all this figured out, but you need to make sure everyone along the logistics chain does too. Guaranteed you'd send emails and letters in advance, and have massive yellow stickers all over the shipment that says "Must be stored at -80C" and you'll have a customer call you a week later asking if the product that's been sitting at -10C is still good.

Here is a document from WHO that will tell you way more than you’d ever want to know about cold chain distribution. There is an entire section on how to appropriately stack the vaccine vials in the freezer so they stay the right temperature. Yeah, it's that complicated.

https://www.who.int/immunization/documents/IIP2015_Module2.p...

Even cold chain for today’s products is really fucking hard.

Derek Lowe had a good quote on this:

"Pfizer has provided these details to the CDC about shipping and storage of their candidate: the vaccine can be shipped in “dry ice pack” boxes, but that dry ice will need to be replenished within 24 hours of receipt. The shipping carton needs to be closed within one minute of opening, and not opened more than twice per day. Vaccine vials, once removed, can be kept at refrigerator temperatures for up to 24 hours or at room temperature for no more than 2 hours after thawing. So this is going to take a very organized approach to make sure that the vaccine is handled properly without wastage. We’re looking at a lot of dry ice and a lot of orders for ultra-cold freezers if this is the candidate that gets heavy nationwide distribution. And mind you, I’m talking about organized distribution in Little Rock and Long Beach. What about La Paz and Lahore? What about Lubumbashi? Even back inside the US, what’s the nearest source of dry ice in Shiprock, New Mexico or Oceana, West Virginia?"

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/08/31/co...

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#52
post #17

Seems like a good time to buy shares in whoever manufactures industrial sized extra cold freezers.

The places that would need to worry about building cold chain infrastructure capacity probably won't have the cash for permanent installations on top of the money they'll need to buy the vaccine.

Better to invest in companies that make and lease refrigerated semi-trailers, I'd think.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#54
post #14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Pfizer's press release, they use "vaccine efficacy" which has a very specific definition. "Vaccine efficacy is the percentage reduction of disease in a vaccinated group of people compared to an unvaccinated group" So basically a 90% reduction in Covid infection.

Thank you, do you happen to have a link?

https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-det...

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#56
post #12

By not knowing how long the immunity/protection lasts, it could mean people would have take the vaccine every 6months?12months?

Yes. Or try another vaccine.

I suspected quite similar to how people are vaccinated against the flu every year.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#57

UK already ordered 30M out of the 50M avail for this year. So no going on winter break to Thailand just yet! Wondering who will grab the next 20M, and how much this vaccine is being sold per dose. (edit: PFE is currently trading +13% pre-market on the NYSE)

Small but important nitpick: since at least 2005 there is no "on the NYSE", the price you're likely seeing is the best price consolidated across all national market system venues, the primary listing exchange is mostly only an administrative entity in recent times. Actually some of the largest premarket trading is occurring on NASDAQ and a CBOE-owned exchange called BATS

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#58

Great. This is the one that has to be kept ultra cold. Hoping for good news about some of the other vaccines in Phase 3 trials soon. The vaccine reportedly needs to be held in storage at -94° Fahrenheit (-70°c), and will last for only 24 hours at refrigerated temps between 35.6° and 46.4°. (about 2° to 8° c) from https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-moderna-s-...

Pretty much any biology lab in the world has -80 °C fridges. For shipping, a styrofoam container with some dry ice is probably good enough.

Re: Covid vaccine: First ‘milestone’ vaccine offers 90% protection

#60
post #33
post #17

Seems like a good time to buy shares in whoever manufactures industrial sized extra cold freezers.

Get some Peloton too. People will probably want to start exercising in their homes.

You’re way too late to the party. Peloton became a $30 billion company during covid. Down over 10% in premarket trading
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