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Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

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Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#51

Post by prox »

cs702 wrote: post #40

Thought-provoking essay by Taleb. Worth the read, IMHO, despite Taleb's usual confrontational style, which may put off some readers. These passages, in particular, caught my eye: > ...the notion that religion determines attitude and culture fails historical logic. And trying to change the theologies makes absolutely no sense. You need to change the mentalities, and cultural norms — if you can. > The robust alternativ…

https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-o...

I love this characterization by David Wong, it goes in depth about the divide.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#52

Post by wreath »

Guthur wrote: post #26

`Now consider the following: there is nothing particularly strong in Islam’s holy text against drinking alcohol, just a rather vague recommendation of avoidance of intoxication while facing the creator.` This is a constant misunderstanding of what constitutes Islamic theology. Islamic teaching are made up of the Quran and Sunnah, the Holy text and ways and teachings of the Prophet Muhammed respectively; there is a wh…

what "science" is that if I may ask?

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#53

Post by Ingosla »

prox wrote: post #50
Ingosla wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> `Now consider the following: there is nothing particularly strong in Islam’s holy text against drinking alcohol, just a rather vague recommendation of avoidance of intoxication while facing the creator.` Sorry but while this may be well meant from the author it is just wrong. I'm arabic native speaker and can provide more details. First the quran was revealed in a span of 23 years. And when dealing with drinking, t…

Question : as I understand it, the later recitations trump the earlier ones. But if it is “the eternal word”, wouldn’t all utterances be true? So you can both apply the first or the latter depending on the circumstances. Do you know how this is resolved or interpreted?

The perfect answer for your question can be found here [1] by Ayub Hamid.

[1] https://www.quora.com/The-Quran-Do-later-teachings-and-verse...

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#54

Post by yamrzou »

prox wrote: post #51
cs702 wrote: post #40

Thought-provoking essay by Taleb. Worth the read, IMHO, despite Taleb's usual confrontational style, which may put off some readers. These passages, in particular, caught my eye: > ...the notion that religion determines attitude and culture fails historical logic. And trying to change the theologies makes absolutely no sense. You need to change the mentalities, and cultural norms — if you can. > The robust alternativ…

https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-o... I love this characterization by David Wong, it goes in depth about the divide.

Beautiful essay, thanks for sharing.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#55

Post by earthboundkid »

tertius wrote: post #43
earthboundkid wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus spoke about eunuchs, who in modern terms would be “trans”.

Not quite. Their goal re: castration was not to become female or identify as such.

For there are some agenders, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some trans, which were made trans of men: and there be ace, which have made themselves ace for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#56

Post by tertius »

earthboundkid wrote: post #55
tertius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Their goal re: castration was not to become female or identify as such.

For there are some agenders, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some trans, which were made trans of men: and there be ace, which have made themselves ace for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Again, the goal, even with the english words changed in your paraphrase was not about appearing/embracing as a different sex/gender. It was in abstaining from sexual activity through castration or choice.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#57

Post by earthboundkid »

tertius wrote: post #56
earthboundkid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For there are some agenders, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some trans, which were made trans of men: and there be ace, which have made themselves ace for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Again, the goal, even with the english words changed in your paraphrase was not about appearing/embracing as a different sex/gender. It was in abstaining from sexual activity through castration or choice.

I said elsewhere in the thread: “Early Christianity was pretty plainly against sex as such, straight or gay.” I think this verse supports it.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#58

Post by tertius »

earthboundkid wrote: post #57
tertius wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the goal, even with the english words changed in your paraphrase was not about appearing/embracing as a different sex/gender. It was in abstaining from sexual activity through castration or choice.

I said elsewhere in the thread: “Early Christianity was pretty plainly against sex as such, straight or gay.” I think this verse supports it.

Please share your thoughts as well as the verse you think supports it.

I don't see it just from reading this verse (and knowing the section).

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#59

Post by Guthur »

wreath wrote: post #52
Guthur wrote: post #26

`Now consider the following: there is nothing particularly strong in Islam’s holy text against drinking alcohol, just a rather vague recommendation of avoidance of intoxication while facing the creator.` This is a constant misunderstanding of what constitutes Islamic theology. Islamic teaching are made up of the Quran and Sunnah, the Holy text and ways and teachings of the Prophet Muhammed respectively; there is a wh…

what "science" is that if I may ask?

There are rules and rigours on the verification and classification of the authenticity of the various hadith. I.e. knowledge gained by systematic study.

I'll not proclaim to be an expert by any means.

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