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Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

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Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#21
The overall point Taleb makes is a good one, but he out kicks his coverage here:

> The (Protestant) Puritans who inhabited New England and the Salafis of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf have nearly identical theologies, based on shared communitarianism (refusal of a centralized authority), iconoclasm (absence of representation, of saints, and of any elaborate aesthetics), absence of an organized “church”, and very stern practice of the religion.

None of these things are theology. They can be informed heavily or indirectly by it, but theology is primarily about how we understand God, not the second order effects.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#22

Controversial author on a controversial topic

Is this really controversial? It's pretty well established that people match local norms far more than they match whatever the statistical norms are for the demographics they belong to.

It is only "controversial" for those whose religious tribe power is threatened, and their sycophants who echo their distress in the hopeful desire to become one of the powerful someday.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really controversial? It's pretty well established that people match local norms far more than they match whatever the statistical norms are for the demographics they belong to.

It's extremely controversial ... in some places. In France right now the topic is extremely controversial due to recent events and will lead to laws proposed at National and EU level for regulating Social networks which are blamed openly by the public opinion for their amplifying effect. This combined with new laws proposals from Germany could soon have a substantial impact on Tech by mandating various regulations on…

(from someone living in France)

>In France right now the topic is extremely controversial due to recent events

For those not aware last week a teacher was decapitated : https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/world/europe/france-teach...

>Social networks which are blamed openly by the public opinion for their amplifying effect.

What are your source for public opinion here? Yes, mainstream media are bold on the social networks. The same mainstream media which are all owned by the wealthiest people of the country and still abundantly financed by the State to survive.

Mainstream media message is not "the public opinion", which is understandably diverse.

Actually, you don’t have to dig much into what penetrate even in the mainstream media to see opinions going from "well, if our proposal to harden the political system as we wish is unconstitutional, we just have to edit the constitution first" to "the same incompetent political class that led our country to the current wave of terrorism is now willing to burn the few remaining public liberty we can enjoy".

The question is not whether a topic is controversial or not. I can make a controversy on the color of your socket – or on endianness[1]. The question is whether we can treat a subject properly.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilliput_and_Blefuscu#History_...

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#25
post #21

The overall point Taleb makes is a good one, but he out kicks his coverage here: > The (Protestant) Puritans who inhabited New England and the Salafis of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf have nearly identical theologies, based on shared communitarianism (refusal of a centralized authority), iconoclasm (absence of representation, of saints, and of any elaborate aesthetics), absence of an organized “church”, and very…

Isn't understanding god's rules for it's followers part of theology?

For example, in Catholicism, the Church is supposed to have some level of divinity carried over from Christ. That would make the central authority of the church part of how they understand god, or their theology, so lacking those things would become part of Protestant theology.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#26
`Now consider the following: there is nothing particularly strong in Islam’s holy text against drinking alcohol, just a rather vague recommendation of avoidance of intoxication while facing the creator.`

This is a constant misunderstanding of what constitutes Islamic theology. Islamic teaching are made up of the Quran and Sunnah, the Holy text and ways and teachings of the Prophet Muhammed respectively; there is a whole science of hadith that form accept elements of the latter. This is the approach of the majority of Muslim communities.

There is an a sect of Islam that only followed the Quran but it has traditionally not been as widespread.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#27
post #5

I've got family members that are a good example of this. Some live in a rural area of the South and think that worsening weather is punishment for allowing gays to marry. Meanwhile when one of my cousins came out as gay, my grandparents who live a few states further North said that he didn't choose to be gay, God made him like that, and invited him and his boyfriend to thanksgiving dinner to make sure he knew that ev…

Most of the time, religious people don’t bother with actual theology. If you care to look, there is a lot of critical thinking that went into the Reformation. Both of these examples go against mainline reformed theology in America. Reformed Covenant Theology says God doesn’t punish us with earthly catastrophes and God doesn’t make people sinners. Many times, Christians just make up or guess at their own theology because they haven’t bothered to read the Bible or haven’t consulted with ministers on matters like these.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#28
post #5

I've got family members that are a good example of this. Some live in a rural area of the South and think that worsening weather is punishment for allowing gays to marry. Meanwhile when one of my cousins came out as gay, my grandparents who live a few states further North said that he didn't choose to be gay, God made him like that, and invited him and his boyfriend to thanksgiving dinner to make sure he knew that ev…

> Both groups of people are super religious (same religion even), and both use their religion to back up their beliefs, not the other way around.

That’s because as far as I can tell, the purpose of “religion” is to assist in tribal bonds. Even though it’s not explicitly stated, it helps serve as a proxy for people to figure how closely to align themselves with another.

When I was a child, I wondered why people who didn’t believe in the assumptions of a religion or act according to them still stated they belong to that religion or performed certain rituals and traditions relating to the religion.

I came to learn it’s because it helps serve as a signal to where your political allegiances might lie and helps manage your priorities and subtly inform others.

Non “religious” societies may have weaker tribal bonds or allegiances with each other, so in times of conflict, they may be unable to create the group dynamics that enable them to survive and/or thrive. Of course, my whole theory might be wrong and maybe there are better signals nowadays.

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#29
post #21

The overall point Taleb makes is a good one, but he out kicks his coverage here: > The (Protestant) Puritans who inhabited New England and the Salafis of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf have nearly identical theologies, based on shared communitarianism (refusal of a centralized authority), iconoclasm (absence of representation, of saints, and of any elaborate aesthetics), absence of an organized “church”, and very…

Isn't understanding god's rules for it's followers part of theology? For example, in Catholicism, the Church is supposed to have some level of divinity carried over from Christ. That would make the central authority of the church part of how they understand god, or their theology, so lacking those things would become part of Protestant theology.

In the strict sense, that would be called ecclesiology, which would be distinct from theology dealing with the nature of God (which has the distinct sub discipline of christology dealing with the nature of Christ specifically).

Re: Religion, Violence, Tolerance and Progress: Nothing to Do with Theology

#30
post #21

The overall point Taleb makes is a good one, but he out kicks his coverage here: > The (Protestant) Puritans who inhabited New England and the Salafis of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf have nearly identical theologies, based on shared communitarianism (refusal of a centralized authority), iconoclasm (absence of representation, of saints, and of any elaborate aesthetics), absence of an organized “church”, and very…

And yet, the church is called repeatedly in Scripture 'the body of Christ'; individual believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, partially for the purpose of receiving gifts by which they are to serve the church; and all believers are considered a family by common adoption by God the Father.

Theology proper is richly coupled with the nature of the church, since the church is so richly coupled with God.

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