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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#51

Post by dx87 »

secondcoming wrote: post #26
staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

> depending on the crime, obviously Well, this is the big part that's missing from the story. 13 years seems like it was a big deal. Is it even legal to ask someone who was in prison what their crime was during an interview?

The tweet says that it was a "serious, violent crime", and that they got out early on parole, so the 13 years wasn't even the full sentence. With that amount of jail time, it looks like she murdered someone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder...

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#52

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nicoburns wrote: post #32
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that works for entry level jobs where direct algorithmic knowledge is the most important, it's hard to test if someone can lead a team of 6 to finish a quarter of a million dollar project on time and on schedule through a 2 hour whiteboard conversation.

Algorithmic tests aren't great for any level. You want to ask someone to solve practical technical tasks that are relevant to the job they are applying for. For an entry level job this may be a programming task (build this one screen). For a more senior position you'd want to ask about things like architecture and practical trade-offs. You could use a whiteboard for this: I don't think it's whiteboards people object…

Very true. I didn't use the right term there for what an entry level dev does. But I still think that, even if a senior tech can do a decent job elucidating a architecture, that's not proof they can lead, which is similarly important, and the only way to prove that you have the ability is to look at past accomplishments.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#53

Post by Chernobog »

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project.

Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for about 2 years and got a kind "we would never have guessed" and "you will get another project then".

As a side note: In our country, an employer needs a legitimate reason to do a background check, and they won't see crimes that are not relevant, or for some crimes - too long ago.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#54

Post by VBprogrammer »

richardwhiuk wrote: post #37
secondcoming wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> depending on the crime, obviously Well, this is the big part that's missing from the story. 13 years seems like it was a big deal. Is it even legal to ask someone who was in prison what their crime was during an interview?

Definitely in the UK. You can ask for full criminal records.

Criminal convictions in the UK at least can be considered spent, after that point it doesn't need to be declared.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#55

Post by nickff »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #43
nendroid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

Isn't a huge amount of prison time in the US handed out for selling banned substances to other consenting adults?

Drug convictions make up a large portion of federal inmates, but federal inmates are a minority of the prison population.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#56

Post by minikites »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #43
nendroid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

Isn't a huge amount of prison time in the US handed out for selling banned substances to other consenting adults?

Yep. Drug laws (and the police/legal system in general) also disproportionately targets people of color.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#57

Post by [deleted] »

content_sesh wrote: post #35
ciarannolan wrote: post #7

tldr: "I reached out to a friend who is Head of Engineering at a ~500 person fintech company."

Yes, this bolsters the author's point that it is essential to create more opportunities because what she had to do to help her friend was only possible because of her extraordinary connections. The author herself points out that most parolees will not be released to the Bay Area with a tech exec friend willing to spend many hours to stick their neck out for them.

[deleted]

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#58

Post by Apocryphon »

thelean12 wrote: post #25
clevergadget wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the people around you haven't done terrible things over the last 13 years they haven't been caught for I've got some bad news for you about humanity

13 years for a "serious, violent crime" could very well be referring to second degree murder in many states. No, I don't think my coworkers or friends have committed second degree murder. Context is of course key, but a blanket statement of "hiring someone who spent 13 years in prison for a serious, violent crime is a good thing" seems wild to me, which is the vibe on this thread.

So it becomes either a law enforcement issue- does our system properly rehabilitate offenders? or a psychological issue- is someone who commits a violent crime inevitably going to repeat it?- or maybe a moral philosophy question- are people inherently evil and dangerous?

Because you’re asking a safety/comfort question, but it’s dependent on the answers to the above.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#59

Post by iguy »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #43
nendroid wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme. Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

Isn't a huge amount of prison time in the US handed out for selling banned substances to other consenting adults?

About 10-20% of prisoners are in for nothing more serious than drugs, and if you try to exclude trafficking, then it's closer to the 10% end.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#60

Post by koiz »

Chernobog wrote: post #53

I was convicted for drugs and firearms in Norway. The only time it has ever come up during my many years as a programmer, was when a consulting company I worked for had the police IT service as a candidate for my next project. Since it was for the police, a background check would be required. I politely told my department head that I would not pass that, and a short summary of my case. At that time I had worked for a…

In the USA, background checks are often just part of the process. There's an entire industry built around providing the service.
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