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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#31

Post by s_dev »

caseyscottmckay wrote: post #8

We need more of this. A criminal record in the US is a curse for life, leaving former criminals with little chance at success and little to live for. People without much to live for are dangerous. We should help our former criminals rather than condemn them for life--it benefits us all.

>A criminal record in the US is a curse for life

The US system probably is overly harsh -- in Ireland it's probaby overly lenient and the pendulum affect is that we've criminals being called in to court with literally hundreds of prior convictions and then they're let off with suspended sentences and then go straight back to what they were doing.

Equally frustrating -- to see the guilty just walk off and laugh as it is to see the redeemed struggle having conceded their mistakes. Justice is very important, hard and complex. I don't doubt that but their clearly is room for improvement on both sides.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#32

Post by nicoburns »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #18
programmarchy wrote: post #3

This is a pretty good argument in favor of technical challenge styled interviews i.e. what can you do instead of what have you done.

While that works for entry level jobs where direct algorithmic knowledge is the most important, it's hard to test if someone can lead a team of 6 to finish a quarter of a million dollar project on time and on schedule through a 2 hour whiteboard conversation.

Algorithmic tests aren't great for any level. You want to ask someone to solve practical technical tasks that are relevant to the job they are applying for. For an entry level job this may be a programming task (build this one screen). For a more senior position you'd want to ask about things like architecture and practical trade-offs. You could use a whiteboard for this: I don't think it's whiteboards people object to. It's the irrelevant algorithmic questions.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#33

Post by ciarannolan »

gtsteve wrote: post #17
jnwatson wrote: post #9

Unfortunately, the worst offender of this is the federal government. Essentially any federal position, regardless of actual job position, requires a background check.

Most government jobs in the UK require this too. However, they don't require a spotless record but there would be some types of offences (serious fraud, affiliation with organised crime, etc) that would make it impossible. It's assessed based on the job, the offence, and how long ago it was. Does a background check in the US imply that they'd never consider anyone with any blemish on their record whatsoever? Surely i…

> Does a background check in the US imply that they'd never consider anyone with any blemish on their record whatsoever?

No, but federal jobs usually get dozens or hundreds of applicants. Removing felons is usually one of the first filters they use to narrow the field.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#34

Post by nendroid »

staticassertion wrote: post #20
nickff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are losing their jobs because of offhand tweets completely unrelated to their occupation; how can we expect that a blemish as big as a criminal record will be overlooked?

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

You say this, but most prison time is done for extreme crime that everyone agrees with. In addition this, prison time is usually reserved for not just crimes we agree with but crimes we all agree are extreme.

Case in point for this specific case it was violent crime, which I'm sure we can all agree is way worse than a racist tweet.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#35

Post by content_sesh »

ciarannolan wrote: post #7

tldr: "I reached out to a friend who is Head of Engineering at a ~500 person fintech company."

Yes, this bolsters the author's point that it is essential to create more opportunities because what she had to do to help her friend was only possible because of her extraordinary connections. The author herself points out that most parolees will not be released to the Bay Area with a tech exec friend willing to spend many hours to stick their neck out for them.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#36

Post by UnpossibleJim »

clevergadget wrote: post #16
nickff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are losing their jobs because of offhand tweets completely unrelated to their occupation; how can we expect that a blemish as big as a criminal record will be overlooked?

pretty sure the people with criminal records have already been punished?

I believe what the person above was referring to is the dichotomy of the people cheering for prisoners getting jobs while cancelling people for a fairly innocuous tweet, however tasteless. While the prisoners may have paid for their crime, there isn't always as clear a path out of the purgatory that is becoming the social pariah of upsetting "the mob" in the Twitterverse (though, past a few professions, I'm unsure how much sway they hold).

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#37

Post by richardwhiuk »

secondcoming wrote: post #26
staticassertion wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather hire a criminal (depending on the crime, obviously) than, say, a racist, especially given how many laws I disagree with.

> depending on the crime, obviously Well, this is the big part that's missing from the story. 13 years seems like it was a big deal. Is it even legal to ask someone who was in prison what their crime was during an interview?

Definitely in the UK. You can ask for full criminal records.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#38

Post by jasonjayr »

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

Did they complete a sentence that was decided to be appropriate for the crime they committed? Then I don't mind at all. They can't change their past, but they can control their future.

If they are still dangerous after serving their time, then they should be held in prison longer.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#39

Post by vincentmarle »

thelean12 wrote: post #14

There are a lot of people saying they're in favor of this type of thing. And for non-violent offenses I'd probably also be on board. But this person committed a "serious, violent crime" that sent them to prison for 13 years. Are you comfortable sitting next to someone who is capable of a "serious, violent crime"? Are there certain crimes that cross the line for you? Would you expect your employer to inform you of the…

So what would be a fitting punishment if sitting for 13 years in prison is not enough, when will she be done with paying her debt to society?
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