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LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

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Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#51

Post by DoreenMichele »

kstenerud wrote: post #50
DoreenMichele wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually had a couple of law classes and worked in an environment where legal stuff drove a lot of stuff at the company. I think this is one of those situations where you want to survive this situation well enough to have (the threat of) the sorts of problems down the road that you are worried about rather than having worse problems because so many people died in the pandemic that the fabric of society has falle…

I don't get it... what's the problem with using existing tools, such as bringing criminal charges against these people? That's within the law already, and people in jail can't throw house parties.

They are letting people out of prison in a lot of places who haven't committed violent/serious crimes because the prisons are a breeding ground for disease in a scenario like this, the prisons are overwhelmed, the hospitals are overwhelmed, etc.

I also see that as a vastly worse legal precedent than shutting off your water to deter disease-spreading large gatherings. That's a great way to make sure we can throw lots and lots of poor people in jail -- just as soon as the pandemic is over the our jails aren't overwhelmed as a matter of course.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#52

Post by gorgoiler »

DangitBobby wrote: post #27
gorgoiler wrote: post #5

When working with children, losing ones temper is a great way to show them that they have “won”.

Do you think the people who had the power shut down on their party house feel like they have won?

To the extent that the organizers received both publicity and validation that they were outlaws, yes.

It is also society’s loss to see the state and her leaders lowering themselves to such spiteful tactics.

If it’s against the law, arrest them. Denying them access to civilization is just the sort of retributive justice that makes so much of US law and order problematic. What next? Ban them from buying food? Force them to wear dunce hats in public? Throw them in the village pond and see if they sink?

Arguably it’s far more serious than a law and order issue though. A CDC cordon and enforced quarantine would have tackled the actual issue: public health.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#53

Post by kstenerud »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #51
kstenerud wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it... what's the problem with using existing tools, such as bringing criminal charges against these people? That's within the law already, and people in jail can't throw house parties.

They are letting people out of prison in a lot of places who haven't committed violent/serious crimes because the prisons are a breeding ground for disease in a scenario like this, the prisons are overwhelmed, the hospitals are overwhelmed, etc. I also see that as a vastly worse legal precedent than shutting off your water to deter disease-spreading large gatherings. That's a great way to make sure we can throw lots…

I think you may have misunderstood. The tools of increasing fines and criminal charges (resulting in jail time or not) have existed for decades already, and are proven in the field to be effective. This is nothing new. There's also nothing stopping the courts from deferring a jail term until the pandemic has passed.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#54

Post by DoreenMichele »

kstenerud wrote: post #53
DoreenMichele wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are letting people out of prison in a lot of places who haven't committed violent/serious crimes because the prisons are a breeding ground for disease in a scenario like this, the prisons are overwhelmed, the hospitals are overwhelmed, etc. I also see that as a vastly worse legal precedent than shutting off your water to deter disease-spreading large gatherings. That's a great way to make sure we can throw lots…

I think you may have misunderstood. The tools of increasing fines and criminal charges (resulting in jail time or not) have existed for decades already, and are proven in the field to be effective. This is nothing new. There's also nothing stopping the courts from deferring a jail term until the pandemic has passed.

I am going to refer you to this fine comment and officially drop discussing this with you further:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24221493

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#55

Post by lodovic »

hluska wrote: post #41
zelly wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mentioned about 30 times. Ctrl+F "vote"

Joke aside, I’m serious. How is throwing big parties in the middle of a pandemic a’freedom’ issue?? The house was warned many times and now they’re facing a reasonable repercussion.

Because your right to stay free from Covid, requires people to behave in a certain way (masks, social distancing) which is at odds with the right to self determination. Sure, it's stupid, but people should be allowed to make stupid decisions for themselves. Not saying I agree but I definitely see the freedom issue.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#56

Post by kstenerud »

me_me_me wrote: post #40
arvinsim wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we ought to change our laws to account for the super rich who can just bypass most penalties using their wealth or connections.

I remember listening to some podcast, it was something about inequality or etc doesn't matter. As part of it this woman was to interview some rich guy. He offered to do it over a dinner and picked her up in his lambo. When they arrived there was no free space so he parked in the disabled space. When she mentioned that to him he replied. "Don't worry its a $400 parking space" The thing is he is not wrong. There are my…

This is why repeated violations of the more serious ordinances can result in criminal charges. It's not so easy to shrug off a criminal conviction, possible jail time, and a criminal record. Criminal fines don't have the same limits as civil fines. Judges can make it really hurt.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#57

Post by me_me_me »

kstenerud wrote: post #56
me_me_me wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember listening to some podcast, it was something about inequality or etc doesn't matter. As part of it this woman was to interview some rich guy. He offered to do it over a dinner and picked her up in his lambo. When they arrived there was no free space so he parked in the disabled space. When she mentioned that to him he replied. "Don't worry its a $400 parking space" The thing is he is not wrong. There are my…

This is why repeated violations of the more serious ordinances can result in criminal charges. It's not so easy to shrug off a criminal conviction, possible jail time, and a criminal record. Criminal fines don't have the same limits as civil fines. Judges can make it really hurt.

Yeah, you tell yourself that.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#58

Post by brendawalsh »

donw wrote: post #45
DangitBobby wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as long as they keep taking this action consistently, it seems pretty clear that it will advance public health goals.

I think you underestimate American willingness to tell authority figures to go fuck themselves. I don't have a better way of phrasing that. This is, perhaps, both the best and worst part of our culture. On the one hand, it gives you rebels that challenge the status quo. That don't take "no" or "that's impossible" for an answer. On the other hand, it gives you a population that would slice off their own noses if the g…

I think you underestimate the government’s ability to mess with people’s cashflow.

If the property owner faces a financial burden, that will incentivize a change in behavior.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#59

Post by DangitBobby »

donw wrote: post #45
DangitBobby wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as long as they keep taking this action consistently, it seems pretty clear that it will advance public health goals.

I think you underestimate American willingness to tell authority figures to go fuck themselves. I don't have a better way of phrasing that. This is, perhaps, both the best and worst part of our culture. On the one hand, it gives you rebels that challenge the status quo. That don't take "no" or "that's impossible" for an answer. On the other hand, it gives you a population that would slice off their own noses if the g…

> best and worst part of our culture

I admire your ability to see the silver lining. I see it as selfishness to the point of toxicity.

I think the ship has sailed on asking people to wear masks. These people--whether they have a borderline ODD tendency to "question authority" and "stick it to the man" for the sake of "personal freedom" (read: selfish masquerading as principled), or if they just can't care about how their choices affect other people anymore because we are n months into a pandemic with no end in sight--have made their choice.

They are not willing to do the bare minimum such as wear a mask or not attend giant parties. I have to say, as far as measures to slow the spread go, these two requirements are incredibly fucking easy to abide by.

So I say shut the power to their party so it sucks, and make it harder for them to spread the virus even faster. Fines based on a percentage of income would be better.

Re: LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties

#60

Post by kstenerud »

me_me_me wrote: post #57
kstenerud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why repeated violations of the more serious ordinances can result in criminal charges. It's not so easy to shrug off a criminal conviction, possible jail time, and a criminal record. Criminal fines don't have the same limits as civil fines. Judges can make it really hurt.

Yeah, you tell yourself that.

If someone has the power to do an end-run around the criminal justice system, they'll certainly have the power to get around a municipal utilities shutoff order.

In the worst case scenario, they could just order a few trucks of bottled water alongside the kegs, and set up a portable generator. Shouldn't cost more than 20 grand or so.

And so what has this new enforcement tool actually done against the belligerent hyper-rich? And in exchange, what danger does it present to the poor?

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